The Political Debate Is Really Life VS Death


The largest political issues are really just between two states of the human condition.

Life and Death

Healthcare: Have it and live, or die without it. You either have it when you need it or you die. Let’s stop talking about it like we don’t know what it means. No one wants to spend money on cash strapped middle class sick people.

Foreign Wars: A way to make money for the rich through oil and weapon sales. No one cares how many young people have to die just as long as the cash is flowing.

Police State: A way to strip people of their rights so the government can have less resistance while they rob you blind. It doesn’t matter that untrained officers with no knowledge of the constitution are randomly killing people. Say it like it is.

Opioids: More money for the rich pharmaceuticals and the handful of people running them. It doesn’t matter if children are being orphaned because it makes money for people already 100 times richer than the average middle class worker.

Job Losses to Machines: Who cares if people are working or not as long as companies can increase the bottom line. The rich are hurting their bottom line paying people, they need metal slaves. Why can’t we just say we don’t learn from our past and move on.

Absurd Education Debt: Young people make great targets for life long debt so give them an expensive education for jobs that pay a fraction of what they were told. The rich need that long term cash flow on the back of your children. They need a cash strapped desperate worker willing to do anything for little to no wage in return. No dignity, no future, no hope just a 50 hour a week zombie. Say it like it is.

Child Abuse on all Fronts: Clergy, politicians, celebrities, and people in positions of authority raping children daily. They can’t even be arrested when caught. But what about the children? Why no outrage? Why no change? Because the people with power and money are the same people trafficking them around the globe. Why not just say it the way it is?

When I watch the news I do it through a bullshit filter because I know behind every political argument is someone getting paid. We are not only fighting for the life and death of or citizens but the very life and death of the world.

Categories: Political HypocrisyTags:

53 comments

  1. Good comments, Lander. Why do you allow it? Because they do not give you any choice. The system is set up to preserve the system. As an outsider looking in, I see all kinds of people hating the system, but yet trusting the system to somehow correct itself. They play the voting game, thinking their vote matters. In the microsystem it might, you get to vote for who you think is the lesser of two evils. In the macrocosm it matters not one whit, you are still voting for evil. The worst part is, the system is set up to self-perpetuate. It only takes 1 vote to decide an election. No one else needs to cast a glass stone. Yet the system makes you think your vote matters, yours might be the one to decide who wins and who loses. As long as one vote is cast, you lose.
    The only way to overcome the system is to overthrow it. And until you collectively figure that out, nothing will change except the party in charge.

    Liked by 5 people

    • The change is not only to over throw it, but it is ultimately on us to change….yes big or small. Although I appreciate all the activism and protests going on in the recent young crowd or so…it shows they are passionate and most(not all) are aware enough of the issues within the system. Not all, but a lot of them seem to forget it goes beyond just being an activist. We need to find our own solutions and we need to be the change. You are against our military going to war for oil and other resources…okay…then who is going to do it because currently all of us depend and use these resources. I am not expecting everyone to ride their bike to work everyday especially when it is not possible, but we can be more conciseness about the over use of resources we use. These companies, corporations and systems will only stop when we stop needing the demand.

      Now this is not me here to activate or preach…but aside from other changes I have made in my personal life, the most empowering thing I did recently was go vegan. Though yes the ethical and health reasons are important, animal agriculture is a proven fact to be one of the most horrendous things humans do to the environment. A certain weight or maybe even guilt has lifted off my shoulders. It is something I can do that is within my control, not the system or the governments etc. I wouldn’t say so much that we are forced into these ways, rather when we meet the demand and supply, the higher ups profit, We need more education in the youth, (they will be the change) in to not only make the changes we need to make, but find solutions so we can stop being so lazy or God forbid give up some of our luxuries that it makes us depend on the system. I think one of the main reasons we are afraid of change is we have become so comfortable and spoiled in our current way of life.

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      • We have other choices than fossil fuels. We have other choices than the way we farm the animals we eat. Your choice to be a vegan is good for you, but most plants still need to be murdered to get their nutrition. Do you not feel guilty about that?
        The thing about life, life lives on life. Except what we get from sunshine, something has to die in order for something else to live. No matter how humane we are, death is a necessity to live. And the includes us, just that most other species are kind enough to wait for us to die before they try to devour us. Fruits, berries, and most nuts are the only foods we do not have to kill to eat.
        And why cannot we ride our bicycles to go places. I live in Canada, six months of winter every year. When I was younger I rode my bike for most of the time, and used public transit when I could not. People are definitely lazy, and love their comforts way too much. Ultimately this will destroy us, unless we change the way we live. “Fat” chance of that.

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        • I fully agree that we have other choices than fossil fuels. When I said I am not asking everyone to ride their bike to school or class/school is because not everyone lives close to their work or school. Public transportation is not offered everywhere either. If possible though and any trips people need to make that is possible by walking or biking though should be considered over driving a car. Electric cars may be another alternate solution and already coming into play, however I will admit I have not looked too deeply into that option. Though some companies are making electric cars, they are still very expensive in our current society and not yet offered to everyone as a reliable solution, if it is. It is something I admit I have not researched much into. Like you said we have other options than fossil fuels.

          What other choices do we have to farm the animals we eat and still be able to successfully meet the high demand and supply? I think at the very least if people do not see veganism as a solution, they should be cutting down on animal products. One thing most nutritionists and health experts always agree on is we all need to be eating more whole plant based foods. Red meat is not so much unhealthy, it is, but like in moderation it will not likely lead to future health problems, it is rather a heavy diet of red meat is unhealthy.

          I find it humorous no one ever called me a plant murderer or cared about plant life until I went vegan. As if it is to justify the enslavement and cruelty we inflict on animals. Let’s look at it both in an ethical and environmental perspective,

          Ethically…The way we raise animals and murder them is insane to me. I have been aware of factory farming long before I went vegan, but when I really looked into it and visited these industries myself, I was absolutely horrified and disgusted. Most of these practices I am about to mention are legal in all farming and industry practices, not just the inhumane slaughterhouses or factory farming. Cows are forcefully impregnated (I don’t think I need to share the details of how this is done..You can look into it if you don’t a;ready know) and after the mother cow gives birth, within the first 24 hours her baby calf is taken away. One of the worse cries I have ever heard in my life is witnessing this cruel behavior. The mother cries and moans long after her baby is carried away. Why is it dog milk is meant for puppies, rat milk is meant for baby rats, cat milk you guessed it meant for kittens etc….but cows milk is meant for humans? The only time humans need milk is when they are an infant and it is their mother’s milk until they are properly weaned. Have you ever witnessed in person pig’s screaming when they are gassed to death? That is another very legal and common process. What about male chicks who are masserated the day they are born in basically a meat grinder because they serve no purpose and are not profitable. Have you ever smelled the fears and death in a slaughterhouse? Even if the animal does not know they are about to be killed, they are forced off the trucks, either man handled or with an electric probe, and into a narrow shoot. Some are lucky enough to wait outside in a fenced area until it is their turn. If anything these animals are yes very scared and confused. This to me is the definition of insanity, but sure let’s have the plant murdering argument.

          Now that we talked about the cruel behaviors that are very commonly practiced all around the world every single day to conscience and sentient beings who feel emotion and pain just like humans do, we can talk about the murdering of plants. Plants are not conscience nor sentient beings, they do not have a central nervous system nor a brain. Though they are alive, no study done on plants to this day prove they feel any kind of pain. Some studies show plants know when a caterpillar for example is eating them, or the whole study showing plants let out shrieks that no one can hear etc….None of these conclude that plants feel any kind of pain, furthermore most of these studies are still very unclear and not finished. A lot of them are picked apart and the media only shares half the facts, the parts that suit the agenda to attack vegans. Hand picking studies is something I am sure we can both agree on is dangerous when it comes to actually being properly informed or educated.

          Now for the environmental part and even more of a reason to go vegan if we are so concerned about plant life, which I am concerned about btw…..More plants are destroyed in animal agriculture, especially when you combine it with the amount of plants we feed to the farm animals being raised. Non vegans kill more plants than vegans. So it still makes sense to go vegan.

          I will end it with….Going vegan is not the only solution for the environment, but no solution is complete without it. I would say cutting a plant sounds a lot less gruesome than the way meat, egg and dairy industry is. That is just my opinion though. But yes I am a plant murderer, how dare I murder all these plants? 😦

          Thank you for your comment, and I knew I never should of brought up going vegan, but maybe it is something worth looking more into for you. If not, that is okay too. Either way….non vegan or vegan, take care of yourself and eat a healthy balanced diet always. 🙂

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          • Dear 88,
            If you have never heard a plant scream when threatened with death you are not listening. If you have ever been in a wildfire and not seen trees listing away from the heat you are not looking. Plants may not be conscious the way you and I are, but that does not mean they do not have their own form of consciousness. All life has consciousness, don’t he so damned humancentric to think that our way is the only way. Look up recent studies on mycellium and then tell me again plants have no consciousness and feel no pain.

            As for factory farming of animals, there are other ways. Just because humans are too lazy and impatient to let creatures roam free and live full lives before then hey die, and then get eaten, that is on us. With our present ability to (please pardon me here, my senior”s brain cannot remember the correct word) keep flesh growing even after the life is gone there is no reason we cannot produce our meats without ever taking another life. We have no need to farm cows or pigs or chickens, or especially fish and other so-called seafoods. It is just human arrogance that they cannot eat vat-grown flesh that keeps us from using our ingenuity to stop being so inhumane.

            As for hearing animals scream, it is exactly because I worked in a slaughterhouse for a month in my youth that I know the smell of fear in animals. And if you don’t think they don’t know they are about to be murdered then you have not watched them trying to escape from that narrow walkway they are forced to travel! The pay was good, but I got so sick watching so much death I had to quit. It turned me into a vegetarian for years. But I watched animals in the wild, and carnivores need to eat meat, and most of them prefer fresh meat. As I said above, life lives on life, something must be killed in order for other life to survive. I’m not saying don’t be a vegan, I’m just saying don’t be so arrogant as to think you are better than people who choose to eat animal flesh. Flesh is flesh, whether it moves or is stationary.
            As for meats, the colour does not matter, whether it be red, white, or pink. Like plants, it provides nutrients other beings need to live. Until we learn to tap cosmic energy for our sustenance, somebody is dying so you can live. Lots of somebodies are dying so you can live!

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            • I understand what you are saying, but sometimes we cannot prevent death when it is necessary for us to live. Vegans are not against neccassary death, they are against the unnecessary of animals dying for taste, convenience, tradition and culture. Same with using their products or testing on them when in 2021 we have much better options that do not involve the suffering of an innocent beings. I think there is more studies to be done on plants, from what I have seen it is still something we misunderstand. We know they are alive, but them being conscience or how conscience is still to be debated. We know the pain and suffering we inflict on animals and have for a very long time. The way we treat animals can be compared to the biggest holocaust and enslavement on earth done by humans in my not so humble opinion. For that reason I am better than those who knowingly this happens and still choose to eat animals. If they do not know, than they are unknowingly making bad choices. I don’t believe people are bad people, but they do make bad choices. In our current society without changing anything, ad given the argument more plants are killed for animal agriculture, we can go vegan today. That is not something you have to wait on humans, governments, corporations etc to change. Which is why I said in my original comment it was a choice I made for myself, that no one could tell me I can’t. I also truly believe no environmental solution is complete without veganism. I hope you are right there are other ways, but they are ways we are far from thinking or talking about, never mind doing.

              I know animals know when they are about to be murdered, I have seen it, but because I am so use to discussing such topics with people who have never seen it, and believe such studies on the internet (studies have also said they don’t know when they are about to be killed) and even though I whole heartedly disagree, I tend to just give that argument as it is still not an excuse to kill them and you still equally see the fear in them. You so far are the most intellectual person I have had a conversation with about these topics. You have even got me thinking, just when I thought I had it all figured out. Again though, some death is necessary for others to live.

              Wild animals do many other immoral things (rape, eating each other’s offsprings etc) and because of that they are not a reason to eat meat. Furthermore, the fact they do like fresh meat and they do salivate at the mouth when they see their prey, tells me they have actual carnivores instincts. I don’t think your argument though was we should eat meat though because carnivores in the wild do, or let’s say pet cats. I am vegan who has two rescued cats. We rescued them before going vegan, I refuse to rehome them because they have been through enough stress in their past. I do feed them cat food that contains meat, it is just cruelty free. I am not that stupid of a vegan. The way they absorb nutrients can only be absorbed from the direct meat source. So I always feel a little bit of guilt when I gotta feed my little carnivores babies, but inflicting suffering on them or chancing a future of health problems, especially for male cats, would also be hypocritical. It is a lose lose dilemma.

              It seems you and I agree on most things. You are a rare breed today and it really made me appreciate our conversation today. It is one of the better ones I have had in awhile, breath taking really. I don’t think I am better than anyone, if the way I explain veganism and it makes the other person feel inferior because of their choices, that is on them. Not me. I always believe in speaking the truth, not sugar coating it. Again some lives are necessary to take for others to live, always. Some ways we can change, some we cannot. Animals like I said are not necessary to murder for us to live. That is where I stand. So if my choice to eat plants is still murderous, what do I eat…dirt? Do I wait for other options and starve in the mean time? I chose what I thought was at the least the lesser of two evils you could say.

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              • Not to be mean, but murder is murder. I believe all life has the right to a natural death. Unfortunately, and I include humans here, less than 50% of the quadrillion or quintillion living gens on this world of ours do not get to reach a natural death, and a lot of that is because of human interference.
                I am not advocating the eating of meat, nor am I advocating not eating it. It is what it is.
                Just by-the-bye, cat food, dog food, etc. Is NOT cruelty free. The parts of slaughtered animals that humans do not eat, skin, lungs, sexual organs, sinews, etc. are all ground up and used for pet foods. You think the meat industry is just going to throw that away?
                This will bolster your commitment to not eating meat, but if you don’t know this already, please feel free to use it. In Canada producers of hot dogs are allowed legally to have up to 10% mouse in their dogs. I don’t know what percentage the States allows, but it used to be higher than in Canada. Other countries I have no idea.
                That law was passed not because the government wanted to prevent producers from using pure mouse, but because the producers had mice and rats in their factories that fell into the grinders, and they did not want to have to make their sites rodent-free. That would cost too much money!
                As you can realize from my writing, I am no longer a vegetarian by choice, but I made the choice to start eating meat again when my health started to suffer later in life. No idea how old you are, and your choices are far better now than mine were thirty years ago even, but there are some things the body misses after years of not getting them. It wasn’t noticeable at the time, and now I am suffering for it. I cannot tell you exactly what, what the doctors told me was above my pay grade, but some things got better after I started eating meat again, and now in my twilight years I am too lazy to learn how to do things better. However, if too many lives were taken in the making of a meal, I won’t eat it. The less lives that are lost to feed me the better. The more things that are made from seeds, fruits, nuts, etc. the better.
                I also have 6 cats, 5 of whom were rescued either from the wild or unsafe homes. If I could afford to feed dogs too, I would probably have some of those. Pets are important to a healthy life, as are houseplants, and trees in the yard. Dandelions may be considered weeds, but bees, butterflies, and other insects need them to survive. I like to think of my home as a microcosm for living beings, where they are safe to live until they die. Dangerous plants I do kill, I am sorry to say, I hate myself for killing them, but a line does have to be brawn somewhere, though if it were totally up to me, and no one else, my home would be a jungle of life.
                That”s me. You are you, so do you. Have fun.

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                • You are not being mean at all. I always say honesty is the best policy as long as it is respectful, which you are. 🙂

                  I never stated that was perfect, and I am very well the damage and destruction we have as humans on this earth and just about everything we come in contact with. I advocate to not exploit animals at the very least in modern nations because we do have so many more options now. While as a vegan, there are risks (I do supplement when I have to) truth is most people are not getting all the nutrients they need. Many people vegan and non vegan are recommended at the very least to supplement Vitamin D. B12 at high levels is actually not the worse thing, and therefor doctors recommend to many patients to supplement B12 anyways. It is not like farm animals naturally produce B12 themselves. They still need to get it from dirt, and from what they eat naturally and since a lot don’t graze in a field, it is very common for them to be injected with Cobalt so they can produce B12. They can produce it though and hence the lie of we can only get protein and B12 from meat. I just decided to essentially take out the middle man. I never had an issue thus far getting enough protein from my whole plant based diet. So though I do watch my intake everyday to make sure I am getting the nutrients I need, the same as if I were non vegan, the big difference now is I actually pay attention now because of all the fear mongering of being vegan is unhealthy. So I actually think I am more healthy now than before, because though I always overly ate a healthy balance I never paid that close attention to what I was eating or absorbing. I know I have felt better and had more energy since I went vegan. So I don’t see any reason why I should be concerned. I just don’t see how it is natural for humans to still eat meat. I just don’t see the argument having much evidence anymore other than our ancestors ate it and yes at the time it did help with our evolvement. If we were naturally born meat eaters, we would have a lot more omnivores instincts than we actually have. I don’t need to argue my stance anymore though and I am sorry to hear you had health problems on a vegetarian diet, or it eventually led to that. Like you said, with so much more information now and more options, it is yes a lot more sustainable now than it ever was before. I don’t have any houseplants, but I am not opposed to them either. They are kind of like fish….nice to look at but you can’t cuddle them so I see it as a lot of work and I am lazy. 😛 Nah, but I can only handle so much house work, outside of my full time job I need a lot more quiet time than most to be able to somewhat function. I am on the autism spectrum so like I hate house work. I think my husband might murder me if I bring a house plant home because he knows he will be stuck watering it and caring for it. Not that I don’t do house work, I do help around the house, but I am overwhelmed enough as it is. Yes, most things on this earth has a purpose, and we all effect each other. I try not t o murder things if I don’t have too. Just like you. Which tells me humans were just a very unfortunate accident, because I feel like the food chain and this planet etc really doesn’t include us. So I don’t see us as anything special, evolved in some ways sure, but that doesn’t make us superior or special. A dandelion like you said have more purpose than we do.

                  Yes I will do me, and you do you. I am glad to hear also at least you are somewhat conscience about what you eat. 🙂

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                  • I try, and my partner puts up with it. She likes to cook and try new recipes, but I don’t partake of a lot of them, and that makes her sad. Food to her is an experience. To me it is sustenance. I eat because I have to in order to remain alive. She eats because she enjoys it. Never this twain shall meet.

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                    • Aha….One thing about going vegan is it did open a new experience for me when it comes to cooking. I now at least enjoy cooking more than I did before, where before I hated it and barely refused to learn much beyond reading a basic recipe. I still eat though to survive and wouldn’t really say cooking is my most enjoyed hobby. My husband is more so the enjoy the experience and sit down to eat a good meal kind of person.

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          • Again, it is what we humans allow to be done on our behalf that makes us so incredibly inhumane. No, there is no need for cows to be treated this way, but until we rise up and stop drinking cow”s milk, the producers will go on treating living beings as they do. That is on me, and you, and everyone else.

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            • That seems fair. For the record I drink rice or almond milk.

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            • I completely agree. It is really frustrating too that humans (including myself I am sure) are so arrogant and destructive in our ways. Like an ant has more importance to the environment than humans do, so why do we still think we are so special? I honestly feel the world in our current state would be better without us, most humans would agree with that. Which is pretty sad. We have advanced in so many ways, and yes we are very intelligent, but where does our greed and selfishness come from? It is why I originally said it is on us to change. I just don’t know when that will ever happen when most humans justify so many things to ourselves, and like I said before especially in the modern world we are too spoiled and lazy to change. It is easier to just accept it the way it is, even if the system is very damaging. All we can do is be the change we want to see in the world, educate through activism, or conversation (without being forceful about it yes. I am trying to find the balance with that. ) or any way we can really. If a person joins politics and truly want change, they will attempt to change without fear of being executed or prosecuted. The problem is not so much that we are afraid of change, as much of we are terrified of the consequences. The system can charge a group of protestors, but if everyone changes against the system that is a different story. Which is why no matter what beliefs a person has, we all need to have this one thing in common. Before we bring the world change….The government and corporations or those in charge of the system are against all of us. They only care about us when they can profit. If we could see commonality with that alone, I think a revolution is possible. Instead we are arguing who is better democrat or republican, the race war the media has created to successfully divide us. Their lies are very thick and are apparently still very successful. We need to find ways to communicate better with each other, find like minded things we can agree on and that is how we will take control for a better life. Our differences really don’t matter at the end the day when what our system is getting way with is criminal. It is up to us, yes.

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              • Well said.
                I feel that what we need is a new consciousness, a real respect for life. People in the Abrahamic faiths are taught to take dominion over life. That we are superior to all living beings. We call indigenous people savages, because they share the land with all the living beings in their worlds. Who are the real savages? Euto-based humans are, yet we make the rest of the world want to be like us. We are pathetic.
                But we have the capability to be better, to live in harmony with the world around us. And that is what mskes me feel worst, that we don’t yet have the will to make that happen. As long as money is our most important goal in life, because the system requires us to gave it to live, we are doomed. Money is not our only evil, but it is the worst one. (I don’t really believe in evil, but I use it for conversation sake).
                Thanks for the communication.

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                • I completely agree and don’t think I can add anything more. Damn humans, maybe we will figure it out one day. Thank you for this conversation. I did learn a lot, even how to at the very least come across as more humble. You also made me look at it from a different perspective. However like you and I both said, sometimes death is necessary for others to survive. Vegans are not against necessary death. Most vegans would defend themselves if attacked by another human or an animal. If it was our life or theirs. I wouldn’t say everyone can go vegan either, there are poor nations who very much depend on their cattle to survive and don’t have the options many other nations or people have. Hence then it is necessary. Justified murder I guess? Kind of like the long debate of abortion, is it wrong is it right. Without sharing my complexed beliefs of abortion I will say this..Abortion is wrong….but I would not force a rape victim to give birth to their rape child, or if there was a health concern such as the mother’s or the babies life was at risk. You can justify the action of abortion, but you are still taking that life, regardless of the argument of when life starts. It is why I am for a better abortion system, but do not believe it should ever be made entirely illegal. That won’t solve anything. So yes…I don’t think I am ethically better than anyone, when it comes to animals….I would say they would vote me in as a friend over those who eat them for taste and convenience. Humans make bad choices all the time, we all make mistakes. But when there is a victim involved, yes that includes all life at the very least all I ask is it should be able to be justified. Which is why most of these conversations can go down hill south quickly. I appreciate your respectful nature and neither of us for losing our cool. Like I said, you clearly know what you believe in and are talking about. The sad thing is a lot of people don’t. Which is why I think this discussion was enjoyable. 🙂 I think humans could solve a lot of problems if we stop dividing ourselves over little differences.

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                  • I do wish you had not gone to the abortion question, because in my mind there is no question. In a monogamous setting, where the participants are willing to have children, or wanting to have children, there is probably little reason to have an abortion.
                    In non-monogamous situations, there are factors you and I have no idea about. Yes, women get pregnant because their sex partners refuse to use protection, but that does not mean she has to pay for doing what everyone loves to do. Accidents happen, but what good is forcing an accident to have an unwelcome result.
                    I will go no further into this except to say, no person has any right to tell another person what to do with his or her body. Lives can be destroyed, and I for one am not going to be responsible for forcing such destruction. There should be no abortion question, because there will never be an answer acceptable in all situations.
                    But that begs the religion question, and I have no idea if you want to go there.

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                    • While I don’t entirely disagree with you. I will also state I am not religious in any way. I have many theories (like crazy theories you do not want to know about) but they all ultimately have no proof or answer, so you could say I am an atheist. I use to be agnostic, but then found that didn’t really suit my belief either. I don’t entirely trust science either. I am complicated….I like to figure things out as I go and do not come to me for all the answers, because I will simply tell you I have no clue. 🙂 Lately even though I am not sure the government is probably lying about the information they released about UFO’s, I await more answers and while I await I have been really into perhaps aliens are Gods. Not really, but yeah..I will study and question everything until I get bored with it and then look at another theory. I have yet to be satisfied with anything. Sometimes I just give up and say you know what cool I don’t know anything and that is okay too. I am not afraid of the unknown basically either. I give things a chance though. The only thing I didn’t give a fair chance entirely was religion. It is too organized and claims to have all the answers, when really I feel we have no answers.

                      Sorry for bringing up the abortion argument, I only meant it as an example. I more meant in society it is one of our longest arguments, is it right or is it wrong? My answer is yes and no. I don’t have a right to tell somebody what to do with their body, but I think it is important people are accountable for their actions. It is one thing to have one or two oopsies I got pregnant, it is a different story to have 4-6 abortions. I know women who have and though I didn’t share my opinion with them it did make me a bit sad inside. Like you would think by your second oops moment you would find your nearest drug store and buy some condoms, or perhaps stop sleeping around with random guys, because aside from sex ending up in a baby sometimes, they can also sometimes result with an STD. I am not against abortion clinics, rather we need better ones. I think unless it is a health concern for the mother, some places need to not allow abortions to happen as far into the pregnancy as some states allow. It does get to the point it is a life now and you are choosing to take that life because what you decided 4 months later you can’t have a baby? Most of us are adults and we need to be more responsible for our actions more often I just feel. But above all and most important, besides we need a better system in general (to be able to care for yes unwanted babies. I obviously know and see the argument side of that. I don’t want a baby to be born and grow up in an awful envrionment or have a terrible upbringing or worse be unwanted etc) but we need better education for women. ‘just because you enjoy doing it’ is not an excuse to use abortion as birth control is ultimately really what I am saying. We know what causes a baby now adays, just we need to be taking more precautions. In most states, where health care is not even socialized, you can get free birth control and condoms etc….especially if you struggle financially. There are resources for women, I just feel we don’t reach out to them enough because we would rather have sex and create unwanted babies?

                      If we cannot be held responsible for our actions….or at least justify them then there are plenty of wrong things we can justify.

                      I hope that makes sense. I am not against abortion, nor am I for illegalizing it, in fact I think that would make things worse, not better. I just sometimes wish some women could make better decisions. I also think we need to see that though there is still arguments to be had about when a fetus becomes a life, we know it does eventually become a life.

                      It is something that needs to be taken more seriously I feel. Instead it is this….all or nothing. ‘I am for all abortions or…I am against all abortions’ I am for better education, more support for women etc….and somewhere in the middle when it comes to abortion.

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                    • Ah, that is a lot different from what you wrote yesterday, and I agree with a lot of what you say, but I will add a few more problems for you.
                      When parents absolutely refuse to allow their children, especially their daughters, to use birth controls, but don’t give them real educational tools regarding sex because talking about sex is taboo, those parents are the ones who should be held accountable. To take it one step further, to kick them out of the house for getting pregnant is the height of hypocrisy! To withdraw support from a child who needs it most at that point is to condemn them to all kinds od unsafe possibilities. Yeah, it”s mostly religious fanatics who do this, but how many religious fanatics are there in this world? Far too many, obviously.
                      Next is the”What happens after the baby is born?” Suddenly all the abortionists disappear. The mother, whether she is a child or an adult, is left to fend for herself, but not just for herself. Oh, they can give the kid up for adoption, or whatever, but that is not always a satisfactory answer either. They spend the rest of their lives wondering what became of the babies they were forced to bear. And the ones who keep their babies, more than half grow up in poverty. Which means their children grow up in poverty too.
                      For me there is no question of when a fetus becomes a life. All of us, every one of us, counts our birthday from the day we were born, the day we drew our first breath completely on our own. This is true right around the globe, in every culture and society. Life begins when any baby breathes on its own, not just human babies. Before that, there is the potentiality of life, even a probability of life, but fetuses can fail right up to the time they breathe (and even then some fail at continuing to breathe). To posit anything else, in my mind, is to grasp at straws, to try to split the atom. Why bother? Only because you want to force your beliefs on others.
                      If there is sin it this world, it is forcing your beliefs on others.

                      As for beliefs themselves, I am spiritual atheist. I do not believe in superbeings, but I do believe in life. How can we deny life, it is the only sure thing we have as long as we have it.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • There are many things parents should be held accountable for and are not. I entirely agree! In short, to fix the solution or divide between being against and for abortion, is we just simply need a better system. That is for most of our problems though. Lol. Sadly. It pretty much sums it up though, we do not need to outlaw abortion or necessarily have better abortion clinics, we just need a different system and more education etc.

                      I am not against abortion as I said, but I do not deny the moral argument entirely either. I see where people are coming from and I do entertain the fact just because they can’t breathe on their own, doesn’t mean it is a life. To say it is anything less is to deny those who grieve miscarriages etc and why abortion is very hard mentally on women who choose to get one, or at least can be. I don’t think we would disagree on that though and I do understand where you are coming from. I just sometimes try to see both or all sides. Just like I try to accept your choice to no longer be vegetarian, even know I believe with all my heart now animals are not here for our personal use, the ethics around it etc. I am friends with religious people as an atheist, non vegans and pro life….I like to discuss these things to I find it very interesting and I do at times try to at least see the other person point of view or belief. I don’t necessarily agree that forcing your beliefs on others is always a sin, unless it is things like religion because you can be a good moralistic person without religion and no matter your beliefs. To say forcing your beliefs on others is a sin, or to judge others is to say we are evil for saying pedophilia is wrong, trying to rehabilate them into society or perhaps just not at all….Which is why our original topic vegan vs non vegan makes many uncomfortable. It has a victim and it involves cruelty while we preach all these other morals. ‘you can’t kill a human, but you know what eff that pig that is more intelligent than my pet dog at home’ it creates conflicting morals. If I were to promote ‘child molestation is wrong’ or save an animal on the streets that was being abused etc I would be seen as heroic, but my activism for veganism is too extreme? No what is extreme is exploiting them the way we do and justifying it when we are against all these other things. There is a true disconnect when it comes to all of it. The same is for abortion in some ways. These are not suppose to be easy topics or topics everyone is going to agree on. I just used it as an example when we make such morally debatable actions or mistakes, at the very least we should be able to justify it. Forcing your beliefs of ‘don’t murder people, don’t molest children, don’t rape’ is fine, but all these other morals are like up for debate? You can’t humanely rape people, but we ‘humanely’ rape animals and then ‘humanly’ kill them. Our morals make no sense is what I am saying. Maybe that is what it is and some of it is for sure is that humans are walking contradictions. I know I have certain contradictions about myself that make me question myself. Everyone has their limit to what they will support and do. , but allowing things that contradict their support. If that makes sense? You know why? Because we are not perfect. 😛 Besides sometimes that is the neat thing about humanity, we are diverse and makes for interesting conversations.

                      I also believe in life, and would say like I said before I am an atheist. I keep an open mind as we don’t have all the answers. Which is very helpful in situations when people randomly decide to ask me what I believe in, sometimes as if to start an argument. I have literally told people before ‘I have no idea, what do you think of this?’ sometimes because I know if they are sensitive this is not a topic they wish to have with me or b. So I am not the first one being disrespectful c. don’t feed the trolls. xD

                      Like

                    • Much of what you say, such as the way we exploit our food sources, I agree with. That women grieve a miscarriage is not wrong, what the are really grieving us their inability to carry a fetus to term, not considering the fact there was a reason the fetus was miscarried. Or, if the miscarriage was caused accidentally, or through violence. All these are things, for the most part, no one can control, especially the expectant mother. But better abortion clinics would help, especially stand-al9ne clinics that everyone who walks in is there for a specific purpose. A big part of the ill-effects of abortion come from the pro-life protesters. The things they say to women even considering the possibility of abortion is tantamount to spiritual violence. It should not be allowed.

                      Bringing pedophilia, rape, and murder into the conversation is like throwing red herrings into a commercial fish net, which is another form of mass violence. These kinds of things cause harm, and are therefore not acceptable to responsible people. There is o need for morals here (or anywhere), intentionally doing harm is not life-affirming. This comes pretty much naturally with the advent of responsible personal action. I know it happened that way for me.
                      Religions, especially the Abrahamic religions (the ones I know best) tell their adherents their God gave them dominion over the lesser beings, and we have taken that to mean if it isn’t human, it has no intrinsic value.

                      Yes, humans are walking contradictions, the biggest one being a matter of convenience. “I believe until it is no longer ger convenient to believe.” This is something I still struggle with.My lawn (I Iive a house) is diviided by a concrete driveway. One half of the lawn is somewhat well tended, my accession to my vocal neighbours. The other half grows wild, my statement about my belief in letting life happen. The neighbohrs can go screw themselves. The back yard is going the way of my wild side. Ants moved in a few years back, and they decided to stay. My yard is now covered in ant hills. They don’t bother me, and I don’t bother them. Mind you, I no longer have a garden, and even the flower garden is growing wild, but that’s okay. The weather is no longer conducive to controlled growing. There’s always too much of one thing, and not enough of something else. If we ever need to sell this house, I have no idea what I will do. Sell it as a wilderness property if I can but buyers might not be impressed. And so it goes…

                      Like

                    • Oh…Basically my thoughts on humanity or beliefs is I do not believe we have a purpose, we are either a messed up and regrettable accident, or maybe an experiment?

                      Like

                    • Experiment is kind of what I lean to, when you add evolution into the conversation. Every evolutionary change is an experiment, based on absolutely nothing except, oops, something changed between the parent and the child, whatever species you are talking about. Most experiments end within the same lifetime they happen. Either the new change does not get reproduced, or it changes into something else again. When changes do reproduce, they continue on until something else eventually arises from them, or they stabilize and are counted as successful experiments, until they aren’t.
                      But you and I differ on purpose. Again I take my cue from evolution. Evolution happens because life is always looking to improve itself. We cannot see this in even thousands of years, but look over millions of years, and you see how the successful evolutionary changes are always an improvement of what existed before. If they aren’t, they just don’t succeed.
                      But it used to be changes were natural, unaffected by other factors. That itself is changed now because humans affect everything around them. Dodo birds were a success until humans wiped them out. It was not nature that failed them, but human aggressiveness. A world populated by Dodos would have been far more peaceful than a world populated by humans, but that is an alternate universe now. In our universe, it was Dodos lack of aggression that cost them their lives. How terribly sad.
                      But getting back to purpose, life itself has purpose, and the most important purpose is to keep on producing more life. Life itself is the absolute most important bit of evolution in existence. Imagine where the world would be without life, any life. A ball of rock rotating around a sun shining for nothing. It is life that gives the universe meaning. And, as you can see–up to the point humans evolved–life has been completely successful at continuing its existence. Life itself, once it came into being, has never failed–yet. But human life is capable of destroying all life on our planet. How perverse!

                      But I have to fight on. I have a need to try to make the world I was born into hopefully a better place than it was then, or at least not a worse place. And here I am not talking about changing the world, but just changing the bit of the world I exist in. It is not for me to tell others how to live, but at least I can role-model how we can be better residents of the world, better examples of what we humans can be.
                      That is my purpose, without it I may as well never have lived.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • Oh…Basically my thoughts on humanity or beliefs is I do not believe we have a purpose, we are either a messed up and regrettable accident, or maybe an experiment? I think we advanced way beyond what we were suppose to and that is why there is so much destruction and evil that goes along with it.

                      Like

                    • Hmm, somehow it seems I got ahead of myself with my last comment. Was I anticipating this comment? I do that sometimes.
                      Yup, humans are an experiment gone wrong, but it can still be righted. As long as we still exist, there is always a chance of fixing the things we did wrong. If we lose hope, we might as well ignite every nuclear bomb on the planet now and get it over with.

                      Liked by 1 person

          • This video is so eye-opening it blows my mind, Thanks for sharing, I learned a lot. I will be posting on this.

            For the record, I don’t drink dairy milk or eat beef but now I have a good reason not to.

            I’m not vegan.

            Like

            • No problem, without being too preachy I will just say this is just scratching the service of the lies the industries hide. I visited different farms in my journey to veganism, the dairy farm I visited was the day I went vegan. It was one of the first I visited though. Smaller farms are a bit better, but there are still certain legal practices that in my honest opinion are not humane, (if you wish to call it humane, I don’t call any of it humane as a vegan now and knowing everything I have seen or researched etc) that happen everywhere. So it is not just a factory farming thing or as some people call it ‘vegan propaganda’ it is just that it is what it is and as long as we exploit these animals for food, clothes, entertainment and other means it will continue. It is just worse in factory farms and bigger farms in the industry, some is for the fact alone they have to supply so much to meet the demand. Where accidents happen, or too many animals being raised in one farm etc…It use to be a lot worse I guess that is the only bright side? Farms have a lot more standards to meet than back in the day, technology has advanced, but I still wouldn’t call these practices humane or fair to the animals in any way. They suffer a tremendous amount of cruelty all for a profit. Which is why the lies are so huge. Social media though is a hope and is now sharing things we never could before. I think with the younger generation, vegan is not popular, but it is obviously becoming more of a lifestyle for a lot of people. I can see at least in the modern world there is hope for a better future. Vegan or non vegan world, I think you will see at the very least people reducing their use or need for animal products, which will not end all cruelty and suffering, but it will play a factor in reducing it. I would never preach that, since I went vegan I dream of a better future where we don’t need to exploit these animals anymore or breed them into existence.

              I am glad to hear you will be sharing it. Like that, these practices do happen and they are very legal. Not legal in my mind, but you know…I see you getting backlash for it maybe…like oh this doesn’t happen everywhere, vegan propaganda bs…It isn’t, I wish it was. But I said I wasn’t going to preach and then I did. My bad. Like that it is an unfortunate truth, and I think at the very least they should stop hiding it from society if this is ‘normal’ behavior. I think one thing everyone can agree on we can make better choices as humans, even if it is reducing our need for animal products, or like you who avoids dairy, beef. Dairy is one of the worse industries to exist. If I had to have any of them out of existence, Dairy would be the first to go. It is one thing to be raised for beef, it is a whole other level to be raised for milk. Although they all have equal levels of cruelty. It is not much better for pigs, chickens etc…So maybe I couldn’t just say this one just needs to go. We either need to make better choices or come up with different solutions IE: Lab grown meat is an idea that is being recently introduced, but I have not looked that much deeply into it. It sounds nice on paper? Veganism was my solution. I feel better for it, I am healthier for it, and my footprint to the envrionment is a lot less as animal agriculture is one of the worse things humans do to the environment. We are feeding a huge source of plants to raise these animals, when we could be feeding it to the poor. I no longer see these or animals as meat, and I think there is a huge disconnect from animals or understanding that they are conscience and sentient beings who have a central nervous system etc just like we do. It would be ignorant to assume they have ears to hear, eyes to see, bowels to defecate, genitals to procreate but don’t use their brain. They are very aware. A pig has more intelligent than our pet dogs who we criticize others for eating while we come home to eat pigs, cows and chickens etc. It is all the same and all I ask is this from non vegans, just be honest with yourself. If it is for whatever reason, taste, convenience, health(to be a healthy vegan one has to be well educated, but it is entirely possible. My levels have been better since I went vegan, other than B12 and Vitamin D which yes I supplement for. But we all should be at the very least supplement Vitamin D anyways) it is possible so I don’t really buy the whole health thing. I think we are omnivores by practice, not by nature and we have very little omnivores instincts, if any at all. I don’t start licking my lips, salvating or go into attack mode when I see a deer run in the woods. These are things we gotta think about. 😛 Since I went vegan I actually find the act of eating animals to be rather strange and not natural at all. Is it normal the lactose intolerant population is so high? Btw, are you lactose intolerant? Is that why you don’t do Dairy? I ate too much beef and dairy when I was not vegan. We long for the taste and I think that is all it is? But that is after we have cooked it, seasoned it etc. You can make vegan food taste very similar, and some the same with enough seasoning. Though I am eating healthier so I gave up eating certain dishes all the time, I still can subsitute meals I ate when I was not vegan and it tastes similar. I am not missing out on anything and when I really miss cheese, ice cream etc(dairy was the hardest to give up) I just watch videos like the one I shared here. Dominion is a documentary that when I watched for the first time I almost shut it off after 5 minutes, if I really need a reason not to consume these products I can just watch things like this. I turn to the vegan community for support, especially when I feel hopeless or meal ideas etc. It has been quite an eye opening and weird journey, Relieving, but angry at the same time. Knowing these things are happening and knowing you can’t do anything to stop it becomes very frustrating. I have been more emotional towards it since I made this transition and lifestyle choice.

              Thank you for watching it, some refuse to see such footage. Some do and change, or some just feel uncomfortable, but are not ready to make the change and some will never make the change but still be morally complexed. I look forward to seeing the post. 🙂

              sorry for preaching and ranting. Have a good day and glad I could help shed some light on a very dark topic in society. This may be one of their biggest lies. It shocks me how so many people literally do not know how these products come into their homes. Like do people really buy the ads of a smiling cow in a field? They know most animals all end up in the same slaughterhouses, so it doesn’t matter what title we give the food (grass fed, organic, cage free…) most are lies anyways to make us feel more moral about what we eat. All these titles mean is to some extent they meet this practice, but it only has to be for a fraction of their life. ‘this cow ate grass once in their life.. ‘grass fed’ we no longer raise chickens in cages we now just chuck thousands in a shed where they still suffer in pain because they have been genetically modified to produce more eggs than they would in the wild. This causes all kinds of illnesses, disease etc. It is a joke that people buy into this crap. All these animals suffer to one extent or another, and to me none of it is okay. Be it better than some farms or worse etc….We need better solutions and we at the very least need to make better decisions, if not for the animals, our environment is also begging us to change. By going vegan you tremendously reduce your carbon footprint, the clean water used to raise livestock doesn’t apply to you anymore, you are no longer the reason why live stock consume more plants than vegans.

              It all comes down to a huge disconnect. I realized this after. I just assume everyone knows about these things, and still eats animals. Then again I ate these animals with no clue to how things are. I was surprised you didn’t know…and then I realized oh wait they don’t broadcast this on tv for dairy ads. 😛

              Like

              • Or was it the sanitized pus part you didn’t know? Lolll…..I heard about this after I went vegan actually in someone’s speech so I looked into and was like I am so glad I don’t do dairy anymore and that gives me some justification to not miss dairy products which use to be my favorite when I was not vegan. Dairy was literally the hardest for me to cut out.

                Liked by 1 person

                • I knew about the pus. I switched to rice milk because it’s cheaper and it lasts 3 times longer.

                  Liked by 1 person

                  • This is true! Rice milk is a very cheap alternative to dairy and the other milk alternatives. Unfortunately for me a lot of vegan alternatives can be more expensive, but just like when I was non vegan, I try to buy most things on sale etc. Much like when I was non vegan healthier food was more expensive aside from veggies and fruits. It just tells more that we live in a society where our government is not promoting healthier choices for any diet. I think we can all agree on that. That and the demand is just not there to want to be healthy and I don’t know where that comes from. Why our society no matter our choices or diet, obesity is so rapid….why do we have 10 year old children over weight? etc….Just when smoking died out and now we know it is unsafe and not recommended, we are now called disrespectful for talking about our lack of healthy diets or lack of exercise. Instead they are promoting it in magazines we now see over weight models and are told this is normal. If we question it or truly say how we feel then we don’t accept them. I respect people, I wouldn’t call someone who is morbidly obese any rude names or anything, but I would say their way of life is unhealthy and perhaps we shouldn’t be promoting to accept it in society. THey once advertised cigarettes as cool too. It is very evident to me more than ever all our governments care about is a profit. Eat more meat, have some more cheese, more cheese with your meat and between those ads you see pills and medicine you can buy for your unhealthy way of life…. Equaling more profit. We know the way we eat is terrible for our environment, but the government refuses to even find any kind of solution because they won’t be alive in 20 years so like who cares if our envrionment becomes no longer livable you know. I think that is something all of us humans can agree on, our governments will never be the change or make the change. Which is why I originally agreed on Rawgod’s comment we need to take over and be the change. I see hope in the younger generation, but I think they need to go a step further, yes education/protesting etc is all important for activism of change, but we ourselves need to practice those changes. Things are the way they are is because we support it. If we started all eating healthier for example you would see health foods decrease in price because there becomes more of a demand.

                    Liked by 1 person

                    • * edit

                      Not just the way we eat. They do have cars that run on used gas etc, electric cars…but these are not available or are way too expensive that most cannot afford an electric car. We have been duped. It is time we look out for one another and stop relying on our government to wake up one day and all of a sudden find all these solutions. They have the solutions, but because it is not making them profit they won’t share them. So in a way just by making better choices etc and spending a little bit of extra cash, we can show them they can equally profit off a better world. Sneaky really. xD

                      Liked by 1 person

  2. Millions of people missing…are you referring specifically to human trafficking or something else?

    Liked by 2 people

  3. Dude, Lander. We need to Pod Bruh!!!!

    Like

  4. Yes, I agree.. just say it like it is. Thanks!

    Liked by 2 people

  5. I completely agree at the very least say it like it is…but then the system will actually have to be held responsible and it could put a damper in their bank accounts. 😉 After all one of the many reasons why the system is the way it is or has been allowed to become as corrupt as it is because they have successfully got us to believe their lies. They don’t want us educated or aware of the truth, this has been very obvious for a long time. lol

    Liked by 1 person

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