10 Things I Learned When I Became A Christian: (#2) Interpretation Allows Anything To Mean Anything


This was by far the most shocking thing I learned after I became a Christian and it is the prime reason why Christianity has so many denominations. The bible is exciting as it is right now but once you apply Interpretation it quickly starts to sound very similar to local culture and concepts.

There are no rules to interpretation, just local consensus. You can, in fact, interpret any line of scripture to mean anything you want it to mean within the understanding of your local group or congregation. There are several patterns I’ve found over the years to this process of rewriting the bible.


First, “Interpretation Via Language“, the way this one works is simple, what you read in the Bible is not what it means because you don’t know the original Greek or Hebrew meaning of the words, so you can’t possibly understand what you are reading. The part I find most fascinating about this type of interpretation is that I have never actually met anyone who speaks Greek or Hebrew, but they do claim to know certain words. If you press them on how they know these words then you will find a shocking and nonsensical fact, they read the words in a 3rd party study book. A book outside of the Bible used to change the meaning of what you just read in the Bible. O.o

Where this gets complicated: This changes from church to church depending on what 3rd party books people are reading (there are many). So, you can be confused multiple times over and come out with many meanings to any given verse. I decided to go with the Bible on this. 

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.


Next is, “Interpretation Via Training“, the way this one works is also simple, what you read in the Bible is not what it means because you haven’t had enough Bible training, with Bible scholars. You haven’t read the entire Bible enough times to have a full grasp of what something means. You also don’t have enough understanding of history, so how could you possibly know what things in the Bible mean without a historical reference.

Where this gets complicated: This also changes from church to church depending on what history is known and accepted by the congregation. So, you can be confused many times over and come out with multiple meanings to any given verse. I tested this several times with the issue of slavery in the Bible and got some fascinating responses from different congregations. Some believe slavery was supported by God due to historical references. Others believed it was not supported by God due to (again) historical references. There are some who think it never happened and that it was just a story to teach us a lesson because of the absence of historical references. I decided to go with the Bible on this. 

Ephesians 1:17
that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.


There is also, “Interpretation Via Common Sense“, the way this one works is frustrating and lazy, what you read in the Bible is not what it means because you are not using common sense. This one I run into mostly with fellow Christians during Bible conversations. You find yourself talking scripture and you read some out loud, as it is written, only to hear in response that it can’t literally mean that. When you press the person as to “why”, they just respond with statements like, “I don’t feel it would mean that”.

Where this gets complicated: This changes radically from person to person. Using feelings to know what something means in the Bible leads to a plethora of meanings. People feel that verses have a certain meaning despite what is literally written in the Bible. They feel it in their bones. I decided to go with the Bible on this. 

2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation.


Last is, “Interpretation Via Divine Inspiration“, the way this one works is complicated, what you read in the Bible is not what it means because person “X” talked directly to God and got a new meaning. I have seen this one many times in many churches. The preacher claims to have received a message from God and that message has provided a new understanding of scripture.

Where this gets complicated: This changes from church to church depending on what the divine message was. So, you can be confused many times over and come out with multiple meanings to a single verse. Sometimes it reverses what is written in the Bible, other times it adds a new modern clause to what is written, and sometimes it adds something completely new that you can’t find anywhere in the Bible. I decided to go with the Bible on this. 

1 Timothy 6:3-4
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicion


Proverbs 3:5-6 — 5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

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112 comments

  1. I agree – the Bible should be read literally. Some peoples reasoning for their beliefs has me gobsmacked. But it IS important to know original Hebrew meanings of the words so we know for a fact what it is saying. jmshistorycorner is doing a translation of Genesis. I can’t remember everything about what he does, but I think you should read it:
    http://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2018/05/19/restored-english-translation-of-genesis-chapter-1/
    http://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2018/06/09/restored-english-translation-of-genesis-chapter-2/
    http://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2018/06/22/restored-english-translation-of-genesis-chapter-3/
    http://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2018/06/30/restored-english-translation-of-genesis-chapter-4/
    http://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2018/07/14/restored-english-translation-of-genesis-chapter-5/
    http://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2018/07/21/restored-english-translation-of-genesis-chapter-6/
    http://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2018/07/27/restored-english-translation-of-genesis-chapter-7/
    http://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2018/08/04/restored-english-translation-of-genesis-chapter-8/
    http://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2018/08/11/restored-english-translation-of-genesis-chapter-9/
    http://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2018/08/18/restored-english-translation-of-genesis-chapter-10/
    http://jmshistorycorner.wordpress.com/2018/08/25/restored-english-translation-of-genesis-chapter-11/
    (That’s all he’s done so far).

    Liked by 1 person

  2. I like your writing, it is thoughtful and clearly written. In my response to your presentation of slavery verses I wrote from the perspective that I was writing to someone who was not yet a Christian. I am new to your blog. You commented on my blog about a year ago and this Labor Day weekend I finally have time to think and write. I saw your comment and decided to look you up. The Holy Spirit teaches us individually. (And you shall call no man Father). And the Holy Spirit will not contradict the clear teaching of the Bible. The Holy Spirit uses the Bible, other “fruit bearing” friends and mentors, circumstances, etc. to lead me. The Holy Spirit is life and gives meaning to the words for me. Jesus did not leave me as an orphan. He is with me every moment. He cares about me and my understanding of Him more than I do. I ask Him how to interpret the Bible and He is my Source and Rock. I once demanded that God speak to me audibly. I heard his voice in my head like an angel and I was satisfied with that. The voice told me what to do and I did it. But when the voice started to tell me to listen to it over the Bible I knew enough of the Bible to know that this “angel” was a demon. I was mad, mad at God for allowing me to be fooled and to be made a fool of by satan. But I learned an important lesson. When I originally asked God to speak to me he gave me the thought that he would use thoughts to speak to me. I rejected that. I wanted something more dramatic (a symptom of my newness of my relationship with him). So, since I rejected God’s best, satan was more than willing to fill in the gap. (Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light). That was 30 years ago. I still don’t know the Bible as I would like. Sometimes I wish I could spend most of my time reading the Bible, looking up the Greek and Hebrew, talking to Christian friends who have proven to me they walk with Jesus. But in the end I depend on Jesus, His love and care for me and His commitment to lead me as I obey Him. He still talks to me in thoughts. When these thoughts contradict the clear teaching of Jesus I know they are not from Him. As I follow, obey, and get to know him as my friend things get clearer and clearer. I like your desire to know the truth about the Truth. (The Bereans were more noble and looked up in the Scripture to see if what Paul was saying was true). God the Father sent Jesus and Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to find you and send you. They will not fail. You can trust them with your life. They have never failed me. Nor will they you.

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  3. After reading your interaction with a hardcore atheist I am overwhelmed (is that the right word?) or intimidated? by your openness to searching for truth and rigorousness in discerning truth. I’m afraid I don’t have the Bible knowledge I would like to have, but I do have 30 years of walking with, stumbling and getting up again with Jesus.

    I ran into a similar situation when I was telling someone close to me about Jesus. I begged God to let me share Him with them even though they are openly hostile toward Jesus. He let me and they listened to what I had to say but were not affected. The next time I was with them God told me not to talk to them about Him. I ignored His warnings and they “turned and attacked me” and it was humiliating and painful (not physically). I am still trying to learn what Jesus said about “casting my pearls to swine and giving what is holy to dogs. This person is not a swine and not a dog. They are a beautiful person made in the image of God and I love them. Jesus thinks so too. The “swine and dog” is not to imply a lack of worth but to convey someone not yet ready to hear the Truth.

    The atheist also made the statement about God damning him to hell for not believing the “right” things. I wonder if he has every had a close, intimate relationship with his heavenly Father? I used to believe in an angry, nitpicking God that matched my memories of my earthly father. But after years of getting to know Him, through reading the Bible and most importantly putting it into practice, I am leaning of a gentle Father who wants to LOVE US and that happens best when we obey Him.

    Thank you for letting me read your writings, I have prayed and will pray for me and you to find Truth!

    Liked by 1 person

    • You Stated — “The atheist also made the statement about God damning him to hell for not believing the “right” things. ”

      My Response — I have also heard this from atheist and find it to be very interesting since no one living knows what the judgement is until they get there. It’s a lie for them to state that they know for a fact what God is going to do in the future since they can’t read the mind of God.

      Jonah 3:9-10
      9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?

      10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

      Isaiah 55:8-9
      8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
      neither are your ways my ways,”
      declares the Lord.
      9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
      so are my ways higher than your ways
      and my thoughts than your thoughts.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. You Stated — “I really like Isaiah 55:8-9.”

    My Response — I do also, it clearly states that a person’s thoughts and ways are not Gods thoughts and ways. This makes a liar out of anyone who claims to know what God wants or how God operates.

    Isaiah 55:8-9 — 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

    You Asked — “What do you think of this: “Paul wrote that God has told everyone what He is like through what He has created. The problem is not that God has not left his fingerprints.”

    This is the Verse:
    Psalm 19:1-6 — 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
    3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. 6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

    My Answer — It is true but what people miss is that we see less than 1% of creation. So we have a (less than) 1% understanding of the creator at best. Also, keep in mind that people only focus on a small fraction of what is actually observable.

    Job 26:14 — 14 Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him? but the thunder of his power who can understand?

    Liked by 1 person

    • That is a great quote of Job. I don’t remember reading that before. I really enjoyed my science classes because through biology, physics, etc. I learned about God; and this was before I was a Christian. I am shocked we see only 1% but I believe you. It will take an eternity to learn from an infinite God.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. You Stated — “It will take an eternity to learn from an infinite God.”

    My Response — Trying to understand God is like trying to understand tomorrow. A place that is always ahead of you, knows everything about you since you are the past, knows what you will do next since it is the future, a place that is never where you are but you are always in it.

    Were you designed to understand God? Do you have the mental capacity to comprehend God? Do you have the knowledge to decipher God? Do you have the grey matter to store all there is to know of God?

    You are not equipped to understand God but you are well equipped to be in awe of him. I can understand seeking God, obeying God and loving God but understanding God?

    Psalm 145:3
    3 Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable.

    un·search·a·ble
    adjective
    unable to be clearly understood; inscrutable.

    I was talking to someone about God once (intense conversation) and the phone rang. We both stopped talking and the room went silent. He then said to me, “how do you know that’s not God calling”.

    My answer was simple, “If that were God calling, every phone on Earth would have rung and every single living being would turn in my direction point toward me and say to answer it for God calls.

    We are far from understanding him and his power. We think far too small.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Amen! (Which I believe means not “So let it be” but rather “Truly” as Jesus used it. (I guess it might mean “So let it be” originally as well, I don’t have enough grey matter at this point to know :>) I like how you think through the Scriptures. How long have you been studying the Bible?

      Liked by 1 person

      • You Asked — “How long have you been studying the Bible?”

        My Answer — That’s a good question. I’ve been reading the bible for years (maybe since childhood) but I didn’t actually start seeing it for what is was until the last few years due to a tiny change.

        It also created a divide between me and other Christians and a divide between me and atheist.

        All this after a simple thought. Such a small thing but such a big effect.

        How about you?

        Liked by 1 person

        • I will respond tomorrow, thank you for asking!

          Liked by 1 person

        • I read the Bible before I knew Jesus but didn’t understand it. I came to know Jesus over a period of about 10 years. Once I surrendered myself to him the Holy Spirit made his home within me and gave some understanding of the Bible. I say some because of course I don’t understand it all, but Jesus gives me what I need as I am ready to accept it. And when I obey him is when I’m ready to accept it. I perceive that Jesus won’t give me any more understanding until I have put into practice the understanding he has already given me. He is a “lamp unto my feet” or a flashlight for my next step.

          You have me curious. What is the simple thought that people reject you over? Jesus wouldn’t reject you. Jesus wants us to think. Yet, I test my thoughts against the Bible. It is my True Standard, or plumb line, or point of known reality.

          As you can imagine, having been mentally ill for 40 years, I do not trust my own thoughts completely. I compare them to the Bible and have my wife and godly friends help me to know if the thoughts are coming from God or me. In the end I am responsible for my actions, beliefs and thoughts, but godly counsel was even sought by the wisest man who ever lived. And that would be King Solomon. I believe he wrote: a wise man has many counselors. That would include him, too.

          Have a great day, and keep trusting Jesus!

          Liked by 1 person

          • You Asked — “You have me curious. What is the simple thought that people reject you over?”

            My Answer — I thought: “What if the bible is true?” What if everything in it is the truth?

            That’s such a dangerous thought that it could cost you half your friends and family.

            What you don’t know is that most people don’t believe the bible and once you see it, you can’t unsee it.

            You wouldn’t know unless it was tested and no one ever really tests it. They just go day to day believing what they want but I decided to not trust my own thoughts or anyone else’s. I decided to only trust what was written.

            This is what happens if you believe what is written (see verse below) and I don’t mean it in some preachy prophetic way. I mean I started taking the bible literally and people started yelling at me in my family. Friends started arguing with me like crazy. The verse is real. These were Christians getting mad at me just for saying bible verses out loud without using PROPER interpretation.

            Matthew 10:34-36
            34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

            35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

            36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.

            I decided to just leave the bible the way it is and not change any words, zero interpretation. I simply decided to believe it as it is written.

            Once you do that prepare yourself for the backlash but on the positive side, it’s like having your eyes opened and everything in the Bible makes way more sense.

            Here’s a good example: https://realitydecoded.blog/2019/08/25/remember-how-tithing-is-for-drinking-alcohol-eating-rejoicing-and-taking-care-of-foreigners/

            People in the church keep telling me why not to do what is actually written in those verses and for the craziest reasons, why I must do what they are asking (but it’s not in the bible).

            Liked by 1 person

            • Have you ever read in Malachi I think it is? what is a “fast” but to loose the chains of injustice? etc. I really like that verse.

              It is easy to say “I believe the Bible cover to cover” if in fact you don’t read it. There is some hard stuff in there. What do you think of Jesus’ hyperbole such as “if your right eye causes you to lust, pluck it out, it is better to enter life blind than to have your whole body thrown into hell.”

              Liked by 1 person

              • You Asked — “Have you ever read in Malachi”

                My Response — I may have read it long ago but it’s not something I currently have notes on in my new studies.

                You Asked — “What do you think of Jesus’ hyperbole such as “if your right eye causes you to lust, pluck it out”

                hy·per·bo·le:
                exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

                Jesus said: “I am the way and the truth and the life”

                My Response — So where does it say in the book of Matthew not to take Jesus (The Truth) literally?

                Or try this… are the verses just before and after 29 also hyperbole? And if not then “Why Not”? If so then what process do you use to determine what is true and what is hyperbole?

                This is also the book where he died to pay the price for sin… a price, before his death, that would have been better to pluck out your eye rather than pay it yourself.

                Was not the sacrifice of his life the only answer to avoid a fearsome judgement such as hell?

                If one would not believe pulling an eye out then why believe hours of torture and then death on the cross? It far exceeds an eye as an extreme (Is it also hyperbole?)

                Does an extreme response in the Bible mean that it’s hyperbole ?

                Keep in mind that he was talking about the reality of their situation with sin and hell as judgement before the ransom was paid by him.

                Think about the last verse in that chapter:

                48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

                Is that statement hyperbole?
                Can you be perfect?
                But should you be perfect?
                Do you think he paid the price because we were failing to be perfect?
                Are we now perfect through him?

                Something to think about

                Liked by 1 person

              • Great way to interpret it, but you can also interpret it to mean that you can’t stop yourself from sinning so therefore sin as you will (People do in fact also use that interpretation).

                The challenge with interpretation is that once allowed your view is true and someone else’s view is also true. If you can interpret then they can interpret. If you are right then they are right. Because you don’t have authority greater than other people. (Ergo now thousands of church denominations)

                If it is left “AS IS” then only the word is right.
                (Thus one church)

                Romans 3:4 — 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

                So is the verse true as stated, that it would be better to pluck out your own eye than sin in a time (BEFORE JESUS) had paid the price for you or are you right in saying that Jesus was exaggerating and he should not be taken literally?

                You Stated — “What do you think of Jesus’ hyperbole such as “if your right eye causes you to lust, pluck it out…”

                hy·per·bo·le:
                exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

                If you are right then we as Christians are confused since we can’t determine who’s interpretation is correct. This verse can be “INTERPRETED” many different ways (Very Confusing).

                1 Corinthians 14:33 — 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

                Not to mention that you then become a mediator between men and God to understand the written word through your interpretation.

                1 Timothy 2:5 — 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

                If you are walking a path and want to find the correct way home should you interpret the signs at the crossroads or take them literally.

                If the road splits 8 ways (8 different interpretations) then which path is correct? The person who made the sign seems to me to be more trustworthy than those who think to know better in their understanding of what they think it means.

                Keep in mind what he told us:

                Proverbs 3:5-6 — 5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

                2 Peter 1:20 — 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

                Are we all right in our interpretations or is God right in his written word?

                People are changing verses to make them make sense to themselves. To fully trust the bible one must take a leap of faith acknowledging that they don’t understand something but with “TRUST” it regardless:

                Liked by 1 person

                • What is the role of the Holy Spirit in interpreting Scripture?

                  Liked by 1 person

                  • You Asked — “What is the role of the Holy Spirit in interpreting Scripture?”

                    Answer —

                    John 14:26
                    26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

                    What was said? —

                    2 Peter 1:20
                    20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

                    pri·vate
                    adjective
                    1.belonging to or for the use of one particular person or group of people only.

                    But People Don’t Believe What Was Said —

                    1 Corinthians 2:14
                    14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

                    So People Change It To Something Believable —

                    in·ter·pre·ta·tion
                    noun
                    the act of explaining, reframing, or otherwise showing your own understanding of something.

                    But What Does The Bible Say About Understanding? —

                    Proverbs 3:5
                    5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
                    and lean not on your own understanding;

                    Either everyone is right or everyone is wrong.

                    Romans 3:4
                    4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

                    Think about it this way:

                    Without interpretation there would be Zero denominations.
                    There would be one church

                    A person may not understand or believe what’s in a verse but the verse doesn’t need to change THEY DO

                    Liked by 1 person

                    • The Holy Spirit is responsible for teaching you, and me. And scripture has no private interpretation. The Holy Spirit will not contradict the Bible or Himself. If two interpretations conflict, one or both are wrong. And remember, deciding to interpret the Bible literally is an interpretive choice.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • You Stated — “And remember, deciding to interpret the Bible literally is an interpretive choice.”

                      My Response — Incorrect. A negative cannot make a positive. Absence of interpretation does not make for interpretation.

                      Like

                    • I have found that the Bible is interested far more in me changing than in me demanding that others change. The Bible is a mirror, I see what I am really like. I don’t sleep with other people’s wives so I am righteous right? Jesus exposes the true nature of the Law and says I am a law breaker if I even look at a woman with lust. Now I see who I really am. I’m guilty, and I need a Savior. Read the Bible to see how Jesus is talking to you about you, about hard things you may not want to face. That is the hardest and most beneficial use of the Bible for me. And God convicts, pardons and heals me when I agree with what he says about me.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • You Stated — “Read the Bible to see how Jesus is talking to you about you, about hard things you may not want to face. ”

                      My Response — Sounds like good advice. Here is a great verse from God to provide just what you are talking about.

                      2 Peter 1:20
                      20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

                      The more you read it the more it plants.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • Does the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth and is that truth of no private interpretation? Jesus is the Prince of Peace and yet he said, I have not come to bring peace but a sword, 2 against 3 and 3 against two, a man’s enemies will be of his own household. Jesus wasn’t talking about a literal sword he was talking about how members of the same family will decide differently about Jesus which will divide them. This has happened in my family. You have decided you will interpret the Bible literally. That is your interpretation choice. I would like to challenge you to ask God to give you verses that say the Bible is to be entirely interpreted literally.

                      Like

                    • You Asked — “Does the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth and is that truth of no private interpretation?”

                      My Response — 2 Peter 1:20
                      20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

                      Like

                    • I apologize but I can’t listen to all of the above lecture because of time. Jesus probably taught the “Sermon on the Mount” in many places, including valleys, as he taught from town to town. The Sermon on the Mount may be a compilation of what Jesus said and what the Holy Spirit felt would be the best to convey the message He wanted to send. Remember that it is the Holy Spirit’s job to teach you all truth, it is our job to trust what He says and not lean on our own understanding of what it says. How do you know when the Holy Spirit is speaking to you? What does He use to communicate to you? When I was first saved I demanded the Holy Spirit talk to me audibly. He said he wanted to talk to me in thoughts. I rejected that as too easy. Jesus let satan talk to me audibly in my mind masquerading as Jesus. When satan contradicted scripture I knew I had been fooled. I accepted Jesus talking to me in thoughts then and it has worked out wonderfully. What fruit of the Spirit is Jesus growing in you? How have you changed since knowing Jesus intimately?

                      Like

                    • You Stated — “I apologize but I can’t listen to all of the above lecture because of time. ”

                      My Response — NP, the world is a busy place and some find things that are more important to them. Let me know if you want to return to this thread in the future and I will join you then.

                      Liked by 1 person

                • People are changing verses to make them make sense to themselves. To fully trust the bible one must take a leap of faith acknowledging that they don’t understand something but with “TRUST” it regardless:

                  Is this your interpretation? Have you asked the Holy Spirit to teach you the Scripture? What has he said to you? Have you put it into practice? What did you learn?

                  Liked by 1 person

                  • You Asked — Is this your interpretation?

                    Because I stated — “People are changing verses to make them make sense to themselves.”

                    My Answer — No, since I stated that I don’t use any interpretation and the statement wasn’t about the Bible it was about people.

                    You Asked — Have you asked the Holy Spirit to teach you the Scripture?

                    My Answer — I say to you, Jesus is Lord.

                    1 Corinthians 12:3
                    3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

                    You Asked — “What has he said to you?”

                    My Answer — If you have the same friend that I have then you will easily get this answer from my friend.

                    You Asked — “Have you put it into practice?”

                    My Answer — God who judges can answer that better than I.

                    You Asked — “What did you learn?”

                    My Response — That which I was lacking and that which needed change.

                    Liked by 1 person

                    • I sense we are leaving a discussion and moving to debate. I don’t want to debate Jesus’ words. You have a unique point-of-view, or non-interpretation of the Bible. You have given me a new perspective to think about. Thank you. I hope we can discuss more in the future.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • You Stated — “I sense we are leaving a discussion and moving to debate. I don’t want to debate Jesus’ words.”

                      My Response — Debates are interesting and discussions are fun but we have done neither.

                      Proverbs 27:17

                      17 As iron sharpens iron,
                      so one person sharpens another.

                      We can talk again any time you want but keep in mind that all I’m doing is copying verses. I didn’t write it so I don’t have any personal perspective on it. Belief is a choice, not an opinion.

                      Liked by 1 person

  6. Excellent questions and reasoning. Plucking my eye out would not stop me from lusting after a woman. It would not pay the price of sin as God said death is the penalty for sin. So, to me, those are not the reason he said that. I read the Sermon on the Mount as showing people who think they are righteous in themselves because they think they are obeying the Law that the true nature of the Law is impossible for us to obey in ourselves. Paul said in Romans I believe that the Law convicts everyone as a lawbreaker and leads us to know we need someone to save us (Jesus).

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    • Another thing to consider is written context. It can give meaning to a quote that if not there the quote can mean whatever you want it to mean. Other context can be who the writer is, who the intended audience is, the location and “times” it was written in, if idioms were used (not to be taken literally) and sarcasm. Paul wrote he wanted the “circumcision group” to go all the way and emasculate themselves. A Jesus follower would not tell someone to literally hurt themselves. But they may express their frustration with a group by saying that.

      Liked by 1 person

      • You Stated — “A Jesus follower would not tell someone to literally hurt themselves. ”

        My Response — Where does it say that in the Bible? Share the verse with me.

        Until then:

        Matthew 26:51-52
        51 With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

        2 Kings 2:23-24
        23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.

        Liked by 1 person

  7. You Asked — “I would like to challenge you to ask God to give you verses that say the Bible is to be entirely interpreted literally.”

    2 Peter 1:20 King James Version (KJV)
    20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

    2 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
    16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    Deuteronomy 8:3 King James Version (KJV)
    3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.

    2 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
    16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

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  8. Let’s try something easier. If you have a post on evolution share it and I will answer the question there, that way you can control the content.

    I would, of course, still disregard any personal comments about me with a standard reply of something like “I can’t take you seriously if you make comments about me, please reword”

    This way I think you can better keep up with the conversation

    Liked by 1 person

  9. When you wrote that you “decided to go with the Bible on this” — to which biblical canon are you referring? And how did you decide it was the correct interpretation?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon#Christian_canons

    Liked by 1 person

    • I actually created my own. I go with all the manuscripts, the only Bible out side of all manuscripts that may be the same would be the Ethiopian bible since they technically didn’t remove any of the manuscripts.

      Keep in mind that a bible is only a collection of a selected number of the ancient manuscripts and letters. I use all of them that are available (none excluded).

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      • Which ancient manuscripts are you referencing given that there are no original copies of the Greek NT available? The earliest Greek compilation is the Textus Receptus, which was compiled around 1516.

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        • There are no originals period. All materials are copies. I was stating that I read any of the materials available that I choose, I don’t limit myself filtered through any particular religion.

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          • Then how can you know which copy contains the correct interpretation?

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            • Why would I have any concerns over interpretations?

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                • What do they not agree about?

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                  • Fundamental aspects of Christian theology, like the Trinity. (see previous link)

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                    • The article was interesting but not very convincing.

                      Also the word trinity that the article is focused on (along with the missing comma Oo) is not in the bible so hardly seems worth debate.

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                    • Really? If the question of the Trinity hardly seems worth the debate, why has it been subject to so much strife between the trinitarian and non-trinitarian factions of Christianty?

                      And once again, if you have no original texts to consult, how can you be certain which (if any) of the current copies are accurate?

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • I don’t know why they are arguing with each other over this and for so long, to be fair I rarely, if ever, take interest in factions arguing about points they can’t prove one way or the other.

                      It’s like every election year my friends and family want me to take interest in political parties and they gather to argue over seemingly nonsensical points that don’t convince me of anything useful.

                      As for “how can I prove things within 100% certainty” then I guess I can’t. Hope that helps you.

                      Someone once tried to debate me about how do I know I’m not just a simulation that was activated recently with false memories. My answer was, I can’t, but why would that concern me?

                      Maybe once I have read everything there is to read I will be able to prove once and for all what is correct and what is incorrect… as long as I’m not a simulation with false memories Oo

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                    • They are arguing because each side believes the scriptures support its theological position.

                      Hence the reason for asking how anyone can claim the Bible is the final authority on any theological matter when the authenticity of the text being quoted has not been firmly established.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • It depends on who you are talking to but from my perspective I only read it as is. I don’t claim anything so I never need to explain my personal interest.

                      As for others I think it’s most likely a need for each side to be right. Some people like to argue, it’s a human condition

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  10. My question is, why have you gone to so much effort to figure out a way for this to make sense to you, because it didn’t. Since everybody has their own secret decoder ring to make sense of it, the real question may be why. Why go to all that effort to find Jesus, a woman perhaps?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Same as with anything else, I put the same amount of energy and time into dark matter and the connection it has with photons. I have more discussions about science and peoples disbelief in it than with religion. I also get the same responses like, “What does it matter”.

      I pursue understanding while on all sides of me people see it as a waste. All I can tell you Jim is to do what pleases you to do.

      With that said: Being a polymath has made me a lot of money and provided opportunities that would not have been available had I not had such a wide interest in both technology, science and god. I deal with a lot of people in my field and being able to speak on all levels has been a blessing 😉

      Just saying

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      • This has little to do with being a polymath determining the Bible is all true. That is merely belief. I wonder if you would have ever found Jesus to be the creator of the universe without the social conditioning and promptings. A universal truth would develop independently across cultures and distance, like core shamanism, developed over the millennia by its utility. No one ever heard of Yahweh not anything g like it except for a small strip of land. It’s interesting that it has no utility either. Just words.

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        • Well being a polymath is just the learned knowledge of a great number of source materials so learning about the bible most definitely would be a part of that. The same as with science, computers, and philosophy. All valid knowledge bases for a polymath such as myself.

          Being a polymath is not a claim that any belief is true which is what I think you are speaking more towards but I’m not making any claims just talking about my experience to share with others.

          As for time spent my website has only about 10% of it’s material focused on such things. I think people only see me through what they are interested in.

          As for conditioning it’s hard to say, you would have to go back in time and remove the concept of a divine being from existence first since it was the catalyst for my finding Christianity years later.

          Keep in mind I was raised by an Atheist and a Spiritualist (dad / mom). I wasn’t interested in Christianity until late 30 ish maybe 40s, hard to remember. I was curious about god first for a number of years (like if there is one type thing).

          Side Note: I have a friend who is a Shaman by the way, we have to date never had a debate on religion.

          Liked by 1 person

      • In other words, A polymath could conclude a monotheistic creator of the universe that aligned closely with the biblical model, without reading the Bible. That never happens.

        Liked by 1 person

        • By definition I am a Polymath Philosopher

          A polymath: is a person whose expertise spans a significant number of different subject areas; such a person is known to draw on complex bodies of knowledge to solve specific problems.

          A philosopher: is a person who is not wise, but possesses the self-awareness of lacking wisdom, and thus pursues it.

          Any conclusion I come to is just a human conclusion like any other. I just pull from more sources of information.

          For instance I study science where most Theist may not.

          I also study religions where most Atheist may not.

          I also study computers where, most all the Theist and Atheist I know both don’t. Along with philosophy and quantum mechanics. I seem to have no real life friends that can speak to any of those topics and I study them much more than religion.

          Most people I know only have a mindset for politics and religion. And like sports, they only have two opinions with very little granular knowledge. For or against a god and for or against a political party.

          I have not heard a compelling argument to date that would to stop me from studying all the topics I find interesting, including the bible.

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          • Certainly, but to draw a conclusion based on a wide variety of sources, not just your select cultural few. Let me give you an example.
            If you were to accept all the billions of human spiritual perceptions, meditations, visions, physics, and even the computer science, biology and neurology, then the possibility of a data stream or Akashic record as genuine, combine all that together, it does not even remotely resemble Jesus, unless you want to discount every other human experience. Those skilled in the meditative arts, the paranormal abilities of certain neurologies, and the worldwide teachings and vision quests of the shaman, the voodoo acolytes, those historically rich in the metaphysical oneness of reality and non-ordinary reality (non ordinary today) they do not even remotely resemble the god of Abraham, especially a literal interpretation of the Bible. Perhaps there is more to the story than shortsighted abrahamic faith that has NEVER produced the desired results except, add more faith.

            Liked by 1 person

            • I will only know that after a review of all the available material.

              I get the same thing from Christians about science but I still haven’t reviewed it all.

              I’m not yet convinced to stop studying the Bible or Science.

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              • Studying the Bible vs studying the Bible through faith is a completely different ballgame. Through faith we find what we want to find and dismiss the rest as you demonstrate in your explanations. I find it quite fascinating that you’ve become a believer first, then find a way to support that belief. It works nearly every time, that why the appeal to faith before intellect. Those few verses are the nail in the coffin of free thought.

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                • That’s an interesting view but I’m a literalist so I don’t have a need to justify anything.

                  The bible also states that god doesn’t need defending so I don’t.

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                  • So you consider all the evidence then decide your a Bible literalist against all evidence. Even the Jews have abandoned the Moses story. It’s funny, the Bible gives place names and like Kadesh Barnea where over 2 million people supposedly lived for 40 years. For a hundred years archeologists have combed the region sure they would hit the jackpot…and nothing, not even a pottery shard. So we are at an impasse. To be a Bible literalist in spite of evidence makes me think… acquiescence, unless there’s a better word.

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                    • I haven’t read the entire Bible, my decision to be a literalist was made early to avoid equivocating down the line. I do the same with all topics. Which is why I was onboard with objects moving faster than the speed of light long before they had a grasp of dark matter.

                      With that said I don’t make friends with this method.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • Of course not. Deciding literalism isn’t a sound approach either way. Following the evidence wherever it may go, is. What’s interesting to me is Jesus also quotes Moses, who is fiction. Talk about a product of his culture! God, tricked by a fable? No pharaohs to align with the story, no cities of brick, not a single artifact when there would be millions of graves, aqueducts, schools, hospitals, etc. We have other settlements in the area ten times smaller with hoards of evidence. We’re talking a settlement the size of Houston? And nothing. Even the people that wrote the book don’t believe the book is more than geopolitical fiction.
                      Now should we move on to test the rest? The neat part about faith is the less evidence available, the stronger the hold faith has. Christianity has nailed it. Now we cling to a mere mention of the name Jesus by Tacitus or Josephus is proof enough of the resurrection and Jesus being the creator of the whole universe by his word.
                      Shall we discuss the probability of Noah? Of Abraham not being a prophet but a spectral evidence lunatic willing to kill his son to appease a vision?
                      This is why I asked the question about a woman (or some traumatic event) because you of all people have acquiesced—and that is to Bible literalism.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • My method of assimilating information literally is a reading process. You are talking about if the information I am reading is true or not. You are conflating reading with fact checking. My reading something doesn’t make it true or false. I am not making a claim that the things I read in science, philosophy, technology, and the bible are true, I am stating that I take the author’s message as is without trying to change it.

                      For example, I read your reply about Moses and I took it literally, meaning I only believe what you typed to be what you are conveying to me, not what you were “trying to say”, not what someone else interprets your words to mean and I don’t add anything based on assumptions. For me, what you typed is what you meant, so down the road I don’t accept any tweaking of the meaning from you or anyone else about what you posted (it is what it is when you typed it forever). That doesn’t mean what you wrote was true or false. Just because you wrote it and I read it doesn’t mean it’s true or false. Me and you are not the authors of truth, but that is a philosophical discussion I don’t think you want to have with a philosopher. I can do it for hours and it brings me much joy but I think others die a little inside so I will spare you that debate.

                      As for your second part about Moses

                      So how does a person like me see your desire to help me understand that Moses is not real?

                      I have people telling me Moses is real and they have evidence, I have people telling me he is not real and they have evidence. Both sides want me to understand that the other side is wrong or lying. I don’t study Moses so I can’t say who is right or wrong. I did become fascinated with him having horns (https://realitydecoded.blog/2019/10/06/the-biblical-moses-had-horns-but-now-he-doesnt/) but that was as far as I went. I’ll get around to him but he’s not on my radar now. The book of Enoch was, and I just completed it.

                      BUT

                      I wonder why Atheist and Theist waste so much time trying to convince each other of small details. It would be easier to address the problem at its core. Why waste time on Moses for belief when you can just bring up God.

                      If an Atheist wants me to believe no god or gods exist, then all they must do is show me proof. Then the argument is over.

                      If a Thiest wants me to believe a god or gods exist, then all they must do is show me proof. Then the argument is over.

                      I’ve not once in all my days seen either prove to me that God exists or does not exist.

                      I don’t make claims about what exists or does not exist. So, I don’t have to prove anything to anyone. My site only provides articles on what I study or things I have directly experienced. I think on my own, not for other people. This was true when I wasn’t a Christian and it’s still true now that I am. All the choices I make are only for me not for others. Everything I have experienced only relates to me, no matter how fantastic or normal the experience. The conversations I have with other people are for perspective, of which has benefited me greatly. I don’t try to convert people, they have to make their own choices. I don’t have any answers about what happens when people die or if the universe came from a big bang. People need to find out for themselves.

                      Just Saying

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • Fair enough. I just find it odd that someone like my mother would make such a big decision to join the Mormons before having ever read the text, let alone the history. I do find it odd that you haven’t read the Bible, yet wind up on your site about it. The quest for a morsel of truth leads us in some strange places like we are today.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • I post about the bible as I finish large sections or deep dives. The Bible only makes up about 10% of my website. The book of Enoch is a set of 5 books that, technically, are not in what you would call the bible.

                      I share anything I read on the site if it was interesting. I’m currently about halfway through “The Meditations By Marcus Aurelius”, who I respect as a philosopher and learn much from but I haven’t read all of his work either and I’m sure there are a number of Theist that will say the same thing to me about him that you said about the bible.

                      You seek truth Jim, I seek perspective that leads to truth. The truth has value but perspective defines it.

                      2 + 2 = 4
                      But not in quantum mechanics
                      2+2 = 1 in the forming of infinite mass

                      1 min is 60 secs
                      But not in relation to space impacted by mass from a perspective further away
                      1 min could equal 1 month

                      Light is real because we can see photons
                      But not when they are a wave function and not when they are encapsulated within an electron

                      Perception is relative to the observer, the observer defines truth, I learned that from Einstein.

                      Think of it this way, “Science is an observation”

                      If you were trying to understand me “as a person” then you might observe that I am seeking to find something that has a wider observation point which would allow for more truth, not someone trying to understand what others believe is true or not.

                      Bring me something fascinating and I will dig into it.

                      Just saying

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                    • ”I wonder why Atheist and Theist waste so much time trying to convince each other of small details. It would be easier to address the problem at its core. Why waste time on Moses for belief when you can just bring up God?”
                      All of these historical myths that have no evidence are god. Even the main character, references events like Noah and the ultimate power of their god in Moses and the exodus, yet those things didn’t happen. That’s why, but it doesn’t seem to matter because of faith. We have a planet full of believers with no evidence that, in their minds, have reached the pinnacle of the religious experience in faith. They are even smug about how special their religion is, yet it has not one time produced the desired effect. Now we continue to wait with a handful of innovators and a society of bickering end-users that give all the credit to Jesus for one damn problem free day. Imagine if everyone were involved, engaged in creating a better life for themselves and society, but we wait. The monotheistic stall, the appeal to faith has plenty if evidence for its effectiveness—to divide, accuse, and to fight because of it.
                      God (the writers) don’t follow the rules of engagement given the general population to follow—because they know better.
                      You like scripture, so here is a favorite of mine from Genesis. In the story of the Tower of Babel god (those in power) saw the people were one. And because of this “they were about to accomplish the thing they set out to do, and nothing could be restrained from them” they were an affront to god when they worked together.
                      If there were actually demons, this is it. The church, the religion, the Bible, all of it has humanity at an impasse.
                      This is why it is important to arrive at the truth. “Straight is the gate and narrow is the way, and few there be that find it” 2.4 billion is not few, but they can hardly comprehend the damage it does through faith before intellect.
                      It’s what allows god to change from cruel to clever without its servants batting an eye. Your religion in the OT practiced human sacrifice and still celebrates it. It has the ultimate graven images in the cross and the Bible, and they excuse their own hypocrisy through faith.
                      All the irregularities and contradictions from omnipotence to evil, the self righteous piety of its blameless believers, all thinking they’re right because that have faith. All the mistranslation, exits, add-ons, forgeries and deletions are evidence for god through faith.

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                    • This is interesting but just your opinion. The human condition can’t be reduced to just one thing which is why Theist and Atheist are just wasting time arguing over what they believe to be the only issue on the table.

                      Take your statement as an example:

                      You Stated — “Now we continue to wait with a handful of innovators and a society of bickering end-users that give all the credit to Jesus… Imagine if everyone were involved, engaged in creating a better life for themselves and society, but we wait.”

                      My Response — China isn’t waiting for Jesus. China is also one of the worlds largest innovators. China is a mess of pollution, human rights violation, child abuse and so on. Shouldn’t your concept of an absence of christianity produce a society that is making that “better life” you are talking about?

                      There are many countries that don’t follow Jesus and yet we still see the same issues. This is why I think people need to work together despite different Political, Religious and Cultural differences and make a concerted effort to tackle real problems like pollution for instance.

                      Mankind really doesn’t have any excuses for why they aren’t working on these problems together rather than wasting time in small arguments.

                      Just a thought

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • America was a great polluter as it was developing too. It’s a process. Of course China has innovation and is beginning to surpass the US. That is simply an indictment that Christianity isn’t special nor does it produce exemplary results. ”There are many countries that don’t follow Jesus and yet we still see the same issues”. Thank you for making the point. It doesn’t produce anything special, but by faith we’re the cats meow…

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • You Stated — “America was a great polluter as it was developing too.”

                      My Response — I think we are most likely still in the top 3. The US military is responsible for most of the worlds oil usage if I remember correctly from when I was in the Navy.

                      You Stated — “Of course China has innovation and is beginning to surpass the US.”

                      My Response — Agreed, although I’m not sure why. Maybe we have to many regulations holding us back or something.

                      You Stated — “an indictment that Christianity isn’t special nor does it produce exemplary results.”

                      My Response — I’m not convinced of that. It would seem to me that Christianity is still a major player on the world stage, both as a constructive and destructive force depending on the related culture.

                      As far as the US being the cats meow or not we are a nation of people, maybe even the most powerful nation on earth so everything we do or believe has an impact but if it’s not technology or money then the impact is minimal. I understand that Theist and Atheist are laser focused on religion but money and technology are the largest disrupters. The bible states money as the major cause for world issues repeatedly as does science in relation to markets and human demand for products. Maybe if we focused on that first, since they both agree, and then once solved come back to moses.

                      Just A Thought

                      Liked by 1 person

  11. I’m not convinced of that. It would seem to me that Christianity is still a major player on the world stage, both as a constructive and destructive force depending on the related culture

    What would you consider examples of constructive and destructive and if the perceived constructive element was no longer active what do you consider would result?

    Liked by 1 person

    • You Asked — “What would you consider examples of constructive and destructive and if the perceived constructive element was no longer active what do you consider would result?”

      My Answer — :

      Destructive: Some churches speak against the use of condoms which can, in some cases, increase the possibility of an unwanted birth or transmission of a sexual disease.

      Constructive: Some churches have established local women’s and children’s shelters that provide safety from abusive family members.

      As for the hypothetical “what if” the shelter were removed, then it could range between a number of things like sleeping in a car, finding an alternate form of shelter (depending on the town and transportation), to possible death depending on the level of abuse.

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      • The stance on contraception by the Catholic Church has ALWAYS been a major issue and especially during the AIDS pandemic and can be directly attributed to the untold numbers of lives lost here in Africa.

        Re: constructive: Are you suggesting would be no alternative means of social help for such people? Are there none operating already?

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        • I’m not sure what you mean. I see where I answered your questions but I’m not aware of any suggestions.

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          • There seemed to be the implication that without the intervention of the church no alternative aid would be available.

            The main point being there is nothing genuinely constructive about the church’s presence yet, as Jim pointed out, most of what they have pursued has had more of a destructive influence. The conversation between Jim and Hispanidad Filipina illustrates this further.

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            • You Stated — “There seemed to be the implication that without the intervention of the church no alternative aid would be available.”

              My Response — Nope, just simple answers to your questions.

              As for “no alternatives” that depends on the town and services available in the area.

              You Stated — “there is nothing genuinely constructive about the church’s presence”

              My Response — That was already covered in your questions and I’m still not convinced of that.

              Some places seem to do well with church supported resources and others not so well, your statement is not convincing to me because it paints to wide a brush.

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              • Yes, there are myriad examples that indicate a constructive impact. However, when one considers the overall impact of the Christian church it is not difficult to state that it has been – and continues to be – more destructive that constructive, and whether you are convinced or not, evidence fully supports this.
                Yet, humanity has been around for a mere tick of the clock – relatively speaking – so perhaps religion is just one of those things we have to work through.
                As parents often say : ”It’s a phase they are going through.”

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                • Like you said we haven’t been around long enough to know so it seems to early to jump to any conclusions.

                  Your opinion is noted, but to early to determine the conclusions you’re coming to.

                  Some people benefit and others don’t. It seems to me that money is at the root of the issues you’re describing. Maybe the focus should be on that.

                  Just a thought

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                  • I doubt financial gain was/is the the prime motivator for missionaries and their churches, especially the Catholics and Protestants that set out to convert the world, but the results of their actions, including the actions of others they condoned or were acting in the name of the Abrahamic god, Yahweh/Jesus are indelibly etched in the the cultures that, for all intent and purpose, they eradicated.
                    and the genocides they perpetrated.

                    In all honesty, when viewed through the lens of history, I am baffled why anyone would want to call themselves a Christian.

                    Liked by 1 person

                    • You Stated — “I doubt financial gain was/is the the prime motivator for missionaries and their churches…”

                      My Response — I’ve read a substantial amount of data showing that missionary work is a big money maker worldwide, and not just with churches.

                      Some abuse this process and pocket most of the cash which was intended for the mission trip to help others. The amount can edge into the millions depending on the size of the organization.

                      You Stated — “I am baffled why anyone would want to call themselves a Christian.”

                      My Response — That’s normal, any group is baffled by why people want to be members of other groups. From my perspective it seems simple.

                      First: People think they’re right and they know what’s best.

                      2: They pick a group to be in so the group must then also be right.

                      3: They spend time trying to convince others how wrong they are by sharing information from their group.

                      4: They become confused when the information is rejected because the information can’t be wrong so the other group and people must be intentionally hard headed, evil, or just plain ignorant.

                      5: They campaign to educate the other group. Depending on the passion level this could get messy.

                      Last: Then they begin to hate the other group and plot to remove them by force.

                      Rinse repeat use words (Politics, Culture, Religion, Education, Class, etc…etc)

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  12. You called me vile, a brain washer, and accused me of human sacrifice so I ended the conversation. It’s nothing new when talking to you but I didn’t see any value in it as a conversation. Once you made a post personal and not about the content I simply marked it as spam. You are the only person we have to do this for.

    Most of your comments are still out there.

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    • That is a lie.
      I never accused you of being vile or of human sacrifice or of being brain washer.

      Reinstate the comment and we can verify how erroneous your claim is.
      Then you can delete it once more when you realise your error.

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      • Ok Per Your Request:

        You Stated — “I never accused you of being vile or of human sacrifice or of being brain washer.”

        Because I deleted this and stated that as the reason along with making personal comments doesn’t add to the conversation:

        You Stated — “…I did mention the vile history of Christianity and its members. And you are one such member.”

        “Christianity is – from its doctrine of worship of human sacrifice”

        “The only explanation for defending such a ”group” and its disgusting practices is indoctrination/cultural brainwashing.”

        “unsubstantiated supernatural claptrap and a continual persecution complex in varying degrees of whine…”

        My Resposne — I will leave this for a few min since you requested it. None of it adds to the conversation so I will move it back to spam a little later. Your perception of me and people at my church are noted but don’t mean anything to us.

        Full Text:
        And I did mention the vile history of Christianity and its members. And you are one such member.
        This is what is baffling.
        When you know full well how revolting Christianity is – from its doctrine of worship of human sacrifice, denigration of humanity in general, including acceptance and codification of human slavery, erroneous literary texts which include fantasy and outright forgery, all claimed to be inspired by a genocidal monster, Yahweh.
        The only explanation for defending such a ”group” and its disgusting practices is indoctrination/cultural brainwashing.

        None of the above are regarded as prerequisites for belonging to a chess society, table tennis club or a group of trainspotters and no one I am aware of spends any time campaigning any other group ( unless for local council funds perhaps) and certainly none of the groups would be insane enough to ” … hate the other group and plot to remove them by force.”

        All I ever see from internet Christians is a weak defense of unsubstantiated supernatural claptrap and a continual persecution complex in varying degrees of whine and feeling hard done by.

        Like

  13. I will if I can finish eating out in town. This is what I’m talking about. You perceive everything from a very narrow point of view. No one’s hiding it’s just not the highest priority to argue over nothing.

    Like

  14. I’ve read a substantial amount of data showing that missionary work is a big money maker worldwide, and not just with churches.
    I have not found anything on line to support this. Every article would indicate the exact opposite. I’d be interested in reading the data you have.

    First: People think they’re right and they know what’s best.

    Agreed. If they always thought they were wrong nothing would get done.
    Religion, however, is a different animal altogether. This is where indoctrination of its adherents plays such an important role in stunting critical thinking and the inability to recognize and acknowledge evidence.

    2: They pick a group to be in so the group must then also be right.
    They pick a group that aligns the closest with their current beliefs.

    3: They spend time trying to convince others how wrong they are by sharing information from their group.

    Not always. It depends on the objectives of the group. In the context of religion, and most notably Christianity then yes, I would agree and history supports this.

    4: They become confused when the information is rejected because the information can’t be wrong so the other group and people must be intentionally hard headed, evil, or just plain ignorant.

    In context, it is difficult to ascertain how confused religious people might get, however, evidence tells us that they certainly consider other religions or even sects within their own religion ”….must be intentionally hard headed, evil, or just plain ignorant.”
    Again, indoctrination plays such a critical role.

    5: They campaign to educate the other group. Depending on the passion level this could get messy.
    The hallmark of modern day evangelism is an example. Internecine war is the extreme.

    Last: Then they begin to hate the other group and plot to remove them by force.

    Agreed. In context there are more examples than I could possible list. Of course the Crusades immediately comes to mind, the Troubles in Northern Ireland, pogroms against the Jews, How many can you name?

    Like

  15. Ark… is it your intention to ask me that same question a million times or are you truthfully really forgetting every conversation we have?

    Like

  16. My reply to your last comment is not appearing. I am just ensuring that you were responding to the correct comment.
    Just in case:
    Self explanatory refers to this.(in full)

    Yet, unlike religion which is abusive from top to bottom, money can at least be put to good use,

    As far as I am concerned I have tried to ensure there is no ambiguity in the sentence. I hope this clears up any potential misunderstanding?

    Liked by 1 person

    • It’s understandable because everyone has bias. I just didn’t think money would be yours but I see a patter now. It’s a good note for later conversations but I’m not sure it’s needed now.

      Like

      • While I acknowledge you might think I had a bias toward money, in this regard this is not the case. I was merely stating from the perspective of evidence that religion is corrupt from top to bottom whereas money can and does get put to some marvelous uses.

        Note: The corruption regarding religion does not apply to all religious people. as there are numerous wonderful individuals who are religious.
        That they have been unwittingly corrupted by religion is another matter.

        Like

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