Some religious groups are forcing faith healing in states such as Idaho, which offers protection from prosecution for religious rights.

Nearly 200 victims in Idaho, (infants, children and teens), have died while being denied medical treatment by parents demanding faith healing only. Others are suffering from long-term complications due to lack of treatment.

Mariah Walton’s Story and why she wants her parents in jail.

Babies are dying from fevers that could be treated easily at hospitals. Even broken bones are ignored in favor of faith healing.

The testimonies of abuse have not convinced Idaho’s legislators to change the laws to protect the children.

What can’t be done in the name of religion?

Join the conversation! 38 Comments

  1. Some people are really hostile to faith healing, seeming to forget that medical errors are still the 3rd leading cause of death in the US, killing some 240,000 people a year.

    Liked by 3 people

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    • The problem isn’t faith healing, it’s denial of medical treatment in favor of only faith healing.

      As a Christian I believe in healing from God but I also believe it’s evil to deny a child medical care.

      Liked by 2 people

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      • Right, but there are also parents wracked by guilt because they exposed their child to medical care. 240,00 people die every year in this country from medical care. It seems to me as if we should address that first.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Agreed, bad medical care is also an issue. I would say both topics are worthy of examination.

        I would also say one wrong does not negate the other both are on a long list of things that need more exposure.

        Liked by 1 person

    • @ IB22

      This is a dreadful stat, of course. As you say, it should be addressed ( are you sure it isn’t).
      But this in no way exonerates faith healing which has never ever been shown/verified to have been effective in any circumstances.

      For what it’s worth, while the figures you relay are bad can you imagine what the rate of infant mortality alone would be without ANY medical intervention?
      Simply try to imagine the disaster if blanket vaccinations were withdrawn or suddenly inaccessible?

      Consider all the children that died or suffered with polio?
      Consider all the women that died in childbirth.
      Consider all those who died because of toothache?

      Bring it right up to date and imagine what would happen if there were no anti-retrovirals?

      As it is,the Catholic Church through its stance on contraception is regarded as directly responsible for the deaths of untold numbers in Africa and other places around the globe

      However, instead of trying to tacitly support faith healing perhaps it would be better if you simply supported your case by supplying verified evidence of just a single individual healed /cured/ brought back to health as a direct result of faith healing or prayer?
      In all seriousness, I am most interested to read any evidence you must surely be aware of, yes?

      Ark.

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      • Here’s a good question. Why do faith healers not go to children’s hospitals?

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      • Exactly!
        Such charlatans should be actively prosecuted.
        However, for some ridiculous reason if a label of Religious Freedom is tagged on then the whole thing suddenly becomes sacrosanct.
        I would add that Yahweh works in mysterious ways …
        but we all know that’s also simply man made nonsense.

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      • The government also got in on the lies of healing. It seems to be a weak point in humanity that is easily exploited.

        https://realitydecoded.blog/2018/02/20/399-black-men-tortured-by-7-us-surgeon-generals-for-40-years-without-rest-within-the-us-and-backed-by-the-cdc/

        Liked by 1 person

      • Are we then in agreement that there is absolutely no evidence that faith healing and /or prayer, especially intercessory prayer, have ever been demonstrated to have a direct, positive effect, and especially as a substitute for medical treatment?

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      • You stated — “Are we then in agreement that there is absolutely no evidence that faith healing and /or prayer, especially intercessory prayer, have ever been demonstrated to have a direct, positive effect, and especially as a substitute for medical treatment?”

        My response – Due to the evidence I would say we are not in agreement. We have documented evidence of faith healing and prayer working so it would be nonsensical to deny it. At the same time there is no substitute for medical treatment and there is no substitute for prayer. They are not related to each other.

        I think you may be conflating claims with occurrence.

        In science there is a term known as the placebo effect. It’s the label used for occurrences of healing or remission of sickness based on an inactive medicine or treatment.

        Where this gets tricky is when people of faith state that the reason for the healing is based on God. They have no direct proof that God healed a person but they believe that is what happened. Secular people believe it is an unknown property of the mind but this also has not been proven as a fact.

        What people believe has to be separated by what we know collectively but that in no way proves a true or false to the claim of a God or what that God can do.

        The only acceptable answer now is, we don’t know from a scientific perspective how some individuals are overcoming sickness due to a placebo but they are.

        I don’t feel a need to ignore the reality we are living in to support a left or right answer.
        Faith healing seems to have no bearing on the healer so a claim that one can heal others has not been proven. Prayer has the same success rates as chance so no one individual can claim that they can pray other people into health without the possibility of failure.

        Medical science has claims to fact that do not survive placebo successes. Any success with a placebo defies cause and effect in relation to medicine and science. So, faith healing can’t be dismissed.

        One of the best examples of this is the “Hypnosurgery”

        Hypnosurgery is an operation where the patient is sedated using hypnotherapy rather than traditional anesthetics. Hypnosis for anesthesia has been used since the 1840s, pioneered by the surgeon James Braid. During hypnosurgery, the hypnotherapist helps patients control their subconscious reflexes so that they do not feel pain in the traditional sense. Patients are aware of sensation as the operation progresses and often describe a tingling or tickling sensation where the pain would normally be expected.

        If we don’t stop taking hard black and white viewpoint on topics that deserve a more granular examination then how will we progress into the next level of understanding our reality?

        Like

      • Due to the evidence I would say we are not in agreement. We have documented evidence of faith healing and prayer working so it would be nonsensical to deny it.

        The largest undertaking to date to test the efficacy of intercessory prayer was carried out by the Templeton Foundation. They concluded that it failed.( although they did not use these words, for obvious reasons!)
        In fact, some patients when discovering that they were being prayed for had a negative response.

        I am seriously interested in reading of the documented – and I presume verified – examples of the examples of prayer you claim being successfully used.
        Let”s stat with this claim, shall we?

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      • You stated – “Let”s stat with this claim, shall we?”

        It doesn’t matter which claim you start with since they are all listed under the same umbrella from a scientific perspective.

        • Sugar pill
        • Prayer
        • Positive thinking
        • Spiritual Healing

        All of these from a perspective of science are listed as placebo effects. Science does not have an answer as to why it works (when it works). It is a fact that people have healed outside of medicine via these methods but it has not been proven why it was successful.

        There are claims that God, cosmic power, karma, positive thinking, etc is the cause but this has not been proven using the scientific method.

        Also keep in mind that it works for some people under some circumstances but not others. It is not the job of science to deny when things work that are not understood.

        All that can be said is “We don’t know why” but it does in fact happen.

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      • All that can be said is “We don’t know why” but it does in fact happen.

        As soon as I ask for verified evidence you go defensive and return to hand waving. This come s across as disingenuous. Therefore, unless you can support your initial claim with evidence that you claim exists then you are simply blowing hot air in an attempt to defend your religious viewpoint.

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      • You stated –”As soon as I ask for verified evidence you go defensive and return to hand waving. This come s across as disingenuous. Therefore, unless you can support your initial claim with evidence that you claim exists then you are simply blowing hot air in an attempt to defend your religious viewpoint.”

        My response — I did provide evidence in my initial reply and posted the information so you could verify for yourself. It’s still there since I can scroll up to see it.

        Here is more: I’m not sure why you think I would care to defend a religious viewpoint when I haven’t mentioned any religion in connection to my beliefs.

        Lissa Rankin explores the implications that the placebo effect has over us. Case studies with over 3500 participants, who had all been diagnosed with an incurable disease like cancer, HIV, various heart diseases, etc. Through the placebo effect, the illnesses had all disappeared without treatment.
        Lissa goes on to talk about a specific case about a man named Mr. Wright, who had been given drugs that he truly believed would cure his cancer. Within days his tumors shrunk to half their size! After a report was released stating the drug didn’t actually work, Mr. Wright’s cancer came back. His doctor sneakily told him that he had a higher quality version of the drug, and injected Mr. Wright with nothing more than water. Again, his tumors went away because he believed they would.

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      • I asked for verified evidence for your claim of the veracity of faith healing.
        I see no verified evidence in any reply.
        Rather provide a link to support your claim that I may judge its veracity.

        I am aware of Placebo.
        In context this is not faith healing.

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      • You stated — “I am aware of Placebo.
        In context this is not faith healing.”

        My response — Then you are not fully up to speed on the topic. You should look into the two examples I provided and then take your own advice.

        You stated to me earlier — “Google is your friend.”

        If it was enough for me then it should be enough for you.

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      • Faith healing in the religious context, which is what we are discussing, is bogus.
        To suggest otherwise requires you to support such a claim with verified evidence. To date you have not done so.
        Until then, I consider you are being disingenuous.

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      • You have a right to your opinion.

        It doesn’t remove the fact that placebos work and we don’t know why they work. Some believe it’s because of God, others believe it’s mind over matter, some believe spirits, ect.

        I will still provide the same answer, “We don’t know why”

        You personal evaluation of me and my beliefs have no bearing on that truth. In our discussion I only focus on the content not you or myself.

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      • I have never suggested placebos do not work.

        Faith healing in the religious context is bogus, as is intercessory prayer.

        If you have verified evidence to the contrary then once again, please provide it.

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      • A claim made without evidence does not require evidence to disprove it.

        Claim — “Faith healing in the religious context is bogus, as is intercessory prayer”

        Evidence provided — none

        Contrary evidence required — Zero

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      • I cited the Templeton Foundation re: Intercessory prayer – the largest field investigation of its kind.
        It was considered a failure.
        The results are on line.
        Faith Healing.
        No verified evidence has ever been provided to suggest it is anything but bogus. You yourself posed the question as to why Faith Healers do not work in Children’s Hospitals.
        You have answered your own rhetorical question.

        Asked and answered

        Like

      • I said faith healers not faith healing. If you keep jumping to conclusions this could take much longer than it should.

        I presented you with two selections proving perception and belief can cause healing and control over the body.

        Hypnosurgery is an operation where the patient is sedated using hypnotherapy rather than traditional anesthetics. Hypnosis for anesthesia has been used since the 1840s, pioneered by the surgeon James Braid. During hypnosurgery, the hypnotherapist helps patients control their subconscious reflexes so that they do not feel pain in the traditional sense. Patients are aware of sensation as the operation progresses and often describe a tingling or tickling sensation where the pain would normally be expected.

        Lissa Rankin explores the implications that the placebo effect has over us. Case studies with over 3500 participants, who had all been diagnosed with an incurable disease like cancer, HIV, various heart diseases, etc. Through the placebo effect, the illnesses had all disappeared without treatment.

        Like

      • Again, you are deviating from context, which is faith healing and so called faith healers in a religious framework.
        Someone such as Benny Hinn would be a prime example.

        Intercessory Prayer is considered bogus.

        Once you have acknowledged this then maybe we can discuss you other examples regarding the placebo effect and hypno therapy.

        Have you by chance perused any of my posts titled Liars for Jesus?

        Like

      • I am not deviating from context since that’s where the scientific community places these unexplained results when they occur.

        I have not perused your posts maybe you can provide a link for where I should start.

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      • Science does not credit faith healing or intercessory prayer. That is untrue.

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      • I never said they credited faith healing, I said that the scientific community places these unexplained results under the placebo effect.

        You are not reading what I reply with because you are too anxious to pounce, let go of wanting to argue for the sake of arguing and entertain the thought of exchanging ideas and perceptions.

        Like

      • I would, if you were genuinely willing to be honest and answer question in a straightforward manner.
        But you don’t.

        Like

      • I’m not interested in what you think of me, it doesn’t further the conversation.

        Like

      • I read some of the posts and the one you named.

        Like

  2. Some would argue that they did not have enough faith…

    Even as anti-doctor as I am, I still have a family practitioner (for those rare immediate type needs)

    religion or science?
    science or religion?

    Liked by 3 people

    Reply
  3. I’m non-religious but, not an atheist. Percentage-wise, statistically-speaking, the medical establishment has killed more people than religious parents. Both are culpable. Unfortunately, it is easier to punish parents than it is to go after high profile doctors or the leviathan that churns them out.

    Liked by 4 people

    Reply
  4. Though, legislating against faith healing is wrong.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply
  5. Mandating medication/medical care and punishing those who don’t want to take part is absolutely WRONG. It’s just like the numerous attempts to punish those who dare to not vaccinate their kids – often briefly filling the news with factoids and emotional sop stories.

    Liked by 2 people

    Reply
    • Keep in mind they are not allowing children to go in with broken bones, they are allowing bones to heal out of place.

      An extreme in either direction is problematic.

      Like

      Reply

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Children Are Under Attack, Religion Gone Wild

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